This thread was originally titled, "Incredible development in the $612,000 Transcon Goodge run, currently ongoing" but the new title is more descriptive. The description of the run is here.
Can anyone share light on if it is very suspect that the tracker is on the van and not the runner. That seems very 1o1 basic attmept to have the tracker on the runner and not the van???
What is the tracker? Is it a cumbersome device that would be undesirable to wear for long distance running? Is it small and something that could easily fall off on the side of the road when adding/removing layers? Would it matter that the runner is not wearing it if it's easily transferrable to someone else?
GPS trackers are light enough to be used on small dogs. Most importantly, it's real time.
I'm not simply dismissing you as an absolute nutter, I actually agree with your general message that something seems "off". I'm just saying hypothetically if it were somehow proven that WG was 100% legit, your excessive actions and analysis would be pretty funny in hindsight...
As per the title of my post - Going Round In Circles - the data isn't going to change, and no amount of analysis is going to get us closer to the "truth". So I don't really see the benefit in going back and forth over very minute details of data that is very clearly "dirty", be it from cheating, or a tech fail, or something in between.
No one can come up with even a theory as to what they could be doing to cheat, and they are unwilling to provide a theory to why the data might be "dirty"... so now what?
a fine read, but to dismiss me as an absolute nutter for pointing out 4 years of consistent data irregularities, by two athletes at very very specific events is way harsh.
No-one on here disagrees the data is off. They're just saying tech fail. That doesn't make me a nutter for pointing it out. I'm just saying that 7,000k over 4 years with almost perfectly predictable fails is very very strange. Ie, on day ones, or when he races during a challenge, or when I send them a tough letter, his data is perfect.
I'm dismissing you as an absolute nutter. I already called you insane multiple times in the first part of this thread and the more you speak the more you confirm it. Leave data analysis to people like me that actually know what to do. Just because you don't understand what those numbers are or even how to download the unsmoothed and prettified numbers does not give you grounds to call someone a fraud incessantly and harrass them.
The way to validate this, is someone needs to just go out there and be normal, run 50 miles with him for a day or two, and then reference the Strava data afterwords.
a fine read, but to dismiss me as an absolute nutter for pointing out 4 years of consistent data irregularities, by two athletes at very very specific events is way harsh.
No-one on here disagrees the data is off. They're just saying tech fail. That doesn't make me a nutter for pointing it out. I'm just saying that 7,000k over 4 years with almost perfectly predictable fails is very very strange. Ie, on day ones, or when he races during a challenge, or when I send them a tough letter, his data is perfect.
I'm dismissing you as an absolute nutter. I already called you insane multiple times in the first part of this thread and the more you speak the more you confirm it. Leave data analysis to people like me that actually know what to do. Just because you don't understand what those numbers are or even how to download the unsmoothed and prettified numbers does not give you grounds to call someone a fraud incessantly and harrass them.
The fact that WillC continues to look at heart rate data, other than other items I've raised (like starting a day 3 miles east of the previous day on Strava), makes it clear to me he's dug into his initial argument, and refuses to let go of it, no matter how much we point out that heart rate data is incredibly inaccurate, and his "90% this", "10% that" is all speculation (misinformed at best), and not built on any true massive data collection and just his ridiculous ideal of clean versus unclean data and cherry picking. I will repeat that I don't think this run is as well tracked as it should be for any record, a record that is 1) silly 2) not even the actual "British" record and 3) seems primarily driven off a marketing campaign, but what WillC is saying is just complete BS. Continue to investigate, but ignore WillC is all I have to say at this point.
I'm dismissing you as an absolute nutter. I already called you insane multiple times in the first part of this thread and the more you speak the more you confirm it. Leave data analysis to people like me that actually know what to do. Just because you don't understand what those numbers are or even how to download the unsmoothed and prettified numbers does not give you grounds to call someone a fraud incessantly and harrass them.
The fact that WillC continues to look at heart rate data, other than other items I've raised (like starting a day 3 miles east of the previous day on Strava), makes it clear to me he's dug into his initial argument, and refuses to let go of it, no matter how much we point out that heart rate data is incredibly inaccurate, and his "90% this", "10% that" is all speculation (misinformed at best), and not built on any true massive data collection and just his ridiculous ideal of clean versus unclean data and cherry picking. I will repeat that I don't think this run is as well tracked as it should be for any record, a record that is 1) silly 2) not even the actual "British" record and 3) seems primarily driven off a marketing campaign, but what WillC is saying is just complete BS. Continue to investigate, but ignore WillC is all I have to say at this point.
Yep, start of day 16 is some 2.5 - 3 miles east of the end point of day 15 - I just painstakingly checked the end and start of all other days and they are very much spot on, so this looked like a major blunder. Did he forget to start the watch or misplace where they stopped the night before?
The fact that WillC continues to look at heart rate data, other than other items I've raised (like starting a day 3 miles east of the previous day on Strava), makes it clear to me he's dug into his initial argument, and refuses to let go of it, no matter how much we point out that heart rate data is incredibly inaccurate, and his "90% this", "10% that" is all speculation (misinformed at best), and not built on any true massive data collection and just his ridiculous ideal of clean versus unclean data and cherry picking. I will repeat that I don't think this run is as well tracked as it should be for any record, a record that is 1) silly 2) not even the actual "British" record and 3) seems primarily driven off a marketing campaign, but what WillC is saying is just complete BS. Continue to investigate, but ignore WillC is all I have to say at this point.
Well said, real Pete Kostelnick.
For that one day where Goodge's Strava data starts 3 miles away from the previous day, I'm not even going to bother because the other days I've looked at start very close to the previous day. This is very likely one of those moments where a runner just forgets to start their watch since I also saw the same thing in other transcon runner data before (and I didn't go whacko over it either).
Genuine question for wvlc. What constitutes "dirty"? By that I mean what precise, objective algorithm can be applied to a day to classify it clean or not, taking pace, HR and elevation splits as inputs?
The way to validate this, is someone needs to just go out there and be normal, run 50 miles with him for a day or two, and then reference the Strava data afterwords.
Exactly. Or two people show up with one car and one bicycle and alternate biking along behind him, all day, every day for several days.
The fact that WG slowed considerably in the 2nd half of each day that he was under invigilation by WC is pretty damning.
Will C did they become aggressive once they had caught wind of your major breakthrough or had they just become sick of having you there? In your early (since deleted) videos you described him as charming having joined him for a brief jog.
The only way this is going to get settled is prolonged/less accusatory invigilation.
I class a day as unclean when the HR becomes physiologically impossible. Less than 1% here question that his data is impossible. They just say it's tech fail. If you look at his last 3 days 160s become 110s for the same pace. Topography has little impact on that and often just makes matters more damning. It's plainly obvious that WG has a very high HR normally and his clean pace/days are 120-180. But him and RB have done well over 7,000k at 80-120 for the same paces, like 5:30-6:30k. This pace is easy on normal runs for us lot, but at multiday it's super world class, and he fires them off like shelling peas late into days at 110bpm or less.
The way to validate this, is someone needs to just go out there and be normal, run 50 miles with him for a day or two, and then reference the Strava data afterwords.
Exactly. Or two people show up with one car and one bicycle and alternate biking along behind him, all day, every day for several days.
This is the only way to be sure, but, who has the time for that, for this?
At the end of the day, if the guy is "cheating", what does it really matter? Isn't he really only taking money from people who are stupid enough to donate to these ridiculous runs. Any person who would donate money to any of these charlatans get the exact punishment they deserve for being stupid - they lose their money. It's just a stupidity fine.
Ok, I'll take the bait. Will Cockerell is most definitely not a never-has-been, he is an authority on distance running in the UK i think and if he's not elite at least he has run a 2:27 marathon (versus WG marathon best???) and written about our sport in depth, he is a good guy. He is not washed up either. Mass respect to Pete K of course but the HR data from WG as RB before him is still v.v.odd to the point of being suspect and I don't take "tech fail" as an acceptable defence given where and when these tech fails keep happening to WG on his fundraisers and coupled with the pacing madness suggests something untoward which I agree that nobody has yet explained it could be watch-muling or whatever. Seeing a never-tired WG on these 55+ days which should be hard for him, the threats to WC, the rock throwing and the crazy brand promotion remains uncomfortable to me, but hey ho there are still WG defenders. If WG had started a purely charity walk Transcon that would be fine, it is a good cause of course but the dodgy data and GoFundMe lack of transparency stuff is so so suspect despite his perfect cheekbones.
What is the tracker? Is it a cumbersome device that would be undesirable to wear for long distance running? Is it small and something that could easily fall off on the side of the road when adding/removing layers? Would it matter that the runner is not wearing it if it's easily transferrable to someone else?
GPS trackers are light enough to be used on small dogs. Most importantly, it's real time.
WG's cousin who crewed the first part of the run, explained on the Jogle Facebook group that the reason WG wasn't wearing the tracker was that it's too heavy. And he's an experienced policeman who would never lie so we all have to believe him!
People keep saying its too coincidental to be "tech fail" but there is a difference between that and user error. There could be something innocent that they do that causes the HR issue. Maybe the HR sensor is getting caked with testosterone cream?
I would say I'm right in the middle. I am of course very jealous of anyone young and good looking (I guess?), but I am old enough to realize how soon that will pass. You will probably be surprised, but a lot of us older folks, maybe even majority were young just a few moments ago. Some can even remember these times. We were also thinking about "pu$sy" a lot, well, maybe not me, I was a hopeless romantic and was mostly thinking about a certain girl as a whole, but you know, past your teen years, there's really more to life than that. You'll get there soon enough! By the way, as you seem to be very knowledgeable about this situation, care to elaborate which one of the 6 dudes stuck in a van with Will G on this multiweek scamwalk across US has a "pu$sy"?
I class a day as unclean when the HR becomes physiologically impossible. Less than 1% here question that his data is impossible. They just say it's tech fail.
Based on the upvote-downvote ratios on this thread, I think most people here are actually on your side. Please don’t let the rude remarks of a few people discourage you. I respect you, and I commend you for your efforts. You have succeeded in casting appropriate doubt on Goodge and his team. Without conclusive video evidence and ongoing monitoring of Goodge, casting doubt is all that can be done; you’ve done it!
Goodge is obviously an attention-seeking individual who is doing this “run” for money and adulation. He will get neither from me, thanks to you.