rekrunner wrote:
liar soorer wrote:
And racial terms.
I'm not sure what triggered this, but if you are talking about the "calling a spade a spade" comment, this is not racist -- in this idiomatic expression, a spade is a shovel.
Not in current vernacular.
Like a form of brown.
Like the word doper has various meaning and which one is the current.
Aussiestatman wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
Wrong again. I gave you a list of truths in response.
Do you think this will get to 1000 posts before somebody mentions the obvious lowering of the WR for the classic distance within two years? By either Gidey or YY or both
It is shameful that a thread that should be about a great performance gets derailed by baseless accusations.
I'm not too sure the time will be lowered within two years. The depth of quality among the top women is not the same as the men, which means the number of fast marathons and records are fewer and far between.
liar soorer wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
I'm not sure what triggered this, but if you are talking about the "calling a spade a spade" comment, this is not racist -- in this idiomatic expression, a spade is a shovel.
Not in current vernacular.
Like a form of brown.
Like the word doper has various meaning and which one is the current.
Yes, in the current vernacular. It is a common expression. Just drop the claims of racism.
rekrunner wrote:
liar soorer wrote:
Not in current vernacular.
Like a form of brown.
Like the word doper has various meaning and which one is the current.
Yes, in the current vernacular. It is a common expression. Just drop the claims of racism.
Your current vernacular.
No longer a common expression with those with progressive minds.
Same with “ doper “ various meaning etc etc.
rekrunner wrote:
Aussiestatman wrote:
Do you think this will get to 1000 posts before somebody mentions the obvious lowering of the WR for the classic distance within two years? By either Gidey or YY or both
It is shameful that a thread that should be about a great performance gets derailed by baseless accusations.
I'm not too sure the time will be lowered within two years. The depth of quality among the top women is not the same as the men, which means the number of fast marathons and records are fewer and far between.
Disagree with the depth greater among the men. The women have four Kenyans all born within 12 months of each other that are all capable on their best day with good weather of minor adjustments to the 2.14.xx current mark. Plus the best two with great revisions of their PB’s this last 6 months. Add to that the obvious dent that Gidey and YY will bring maybe next fall when they decide to step up. Competition will bring lowering of the WR.
Men on the other hand still only have the two in their mid thirties will sub 2.02, one with sub 2.03 who cannot seem to get it together in a major, and the best in the world just now who is only recently managed sub 2.04. Add Kamworor who can talk a big race but go out too slow
Aussiestatman wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
It is shameful that a thread that should be about a great performance gets derailed by baseless accusations.
I'm not too sure the time will be lowered within two years. The depth of quality among the top women is not the same as the men, which means the number of fast marathons and records are fewer and far between.
Disagree with the depth greater among the men. The women have four Kenyans all born within 12 months of each other that are all capable on their best day with good weather of minor adjustments to the 2.14.xx current mark. Plus the best two with great revisions of their PB’s this last 6 months. Add to that the obvious dent that Gidey and YY will bring maybe next fall when they decide to step up. Competition will bring lowering of the WR.
Men on the other hand still only have the two in their mid thirties will sub 2.02, one with sub 2.03 who cannot seem to get it together in a major, and the best in the world just now who is only recently managed sub 2.04. Add Kamworor who can talk a big race but go out too slow
Add one more woman to rattle the record’s cage: Gotytom, winner of Berlin on debut. Time not a bard burner but on the right road with her Bahrain night Half performance
Aussiestatman wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
It is shameful that a thread that should be about a great performance gets derailed by baseless accusations.
I'm not too sure the time will be lowered within two years. The depth of quality among the top women is not the same as the men, which means the number of fast marathons and records are fewer and far between.
Disagree with the depth greater among the men. The women have four Kenyans all born within 12 months of each other that are all capable on their best day with good weather of minor adjustments to the 2.14.xx current mark. Plus the best two with great revisions of their PB’s this last 6 months. Add to that the obvious dent that Gidey and YY will bring maybe next fall when they decide to step up. Competition will bring lowering of the WR.
Men on the other hand still only have the two in their mid thirties will sub 2.02, one with sub 2.03 who cannot seem to get it together in a major, and the best in the world just now who is only recently managed sub 2.04. Add Kamworor who can talk a big race but go out too slow
Very unlikely that the depth among the women is as deep as on the mens side. Still much more men are doing sport at this level, especially in Africa.
All the road world records will be bettered within the next two years.
Aussiestatman wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
It is shameful that a thread that should be about a great performance gets derailed by baseless accusations.
I'm not too sure the time will be lowered within two years. The depth of quality among the top women is not the same as the men, which means the number of fast marathons and records are fewer and far between.
Disagree with the depth greater among the men. The women have four Kenyans all born within 12 months of each other that are all capable on their best day with good weather of minor adjustments to the 2.14.xx current mark. Plus the best two with great revisions of their PB’s this last 6 months. Add to that the obvious dent that Gidey and YY will bring maybe next fall when they decide to step up. Competition will bring lowering of the WR.
Men on the other hand still only have the two in their mid thirties will sub 2.02, one with sub 2.03 who cannot seem to get it together in a major, and the best in the world just now who is only recently managed sub 2.04. Add Kamworor who can talk a big race but go out too slow
But will these women race together and push themselves and the pace? How often do we see men racing at world record pace, and at the 30km mark you still have 8 to 10 men together? There is a lot of drafting and constant pacing. These sub-2:02 was the result of more than a decade of men in groups pushing the record down, ending in new shoes. Women’s races often start out slow and “tactical” — it’s simply a question of when someone would attempt it.
Sure Brigid Kosgei did it in Chicago with male pacers and new shoes, so maybe that record can drop on a faster course with the right athletes and the right conditions and pacers in a non-World or non-Olympic year, so I’m not saying no, and I would be happy to see you proven right, and even happy to see one or two attempts, even if they don’t succeed.
rekrunner wrote:
Aussiestatman wrote:
Disagree with the depth greater among the men. The women have four Kenyans all born within 12 months of each other that are all capable on their best day with good weather of minor adjustments to the 2.14.xx current mark. Plus the best two with great revisions of their PB’s this last 6 months. Add to that the obvious dent that Gidey and YY will bring maybe next fall when they decide to step up. Competition will bring lowering of the WR.
Men on the other hand still only have the two in their mid thirties will sub 2.02, one with sub 2.03 who cannot seem to get it together in a major, and the best in the world just now who is only recently managed sub 2.04. Add Kamworor who can talk a big race but go out too slow
But will these women race together and push themselves and the pace? How often do we see men racing at world record pace, and at the 30km mark you still have 8 to 10 men together? There is a lot of drafting and constant pacing. These sub-2:02 was the result of more than a decade of men in groups pushing the record down, ending in new shoes. Women’s races often start out slow and “tactical” — it’s simply a question of when someone would attempt it.
Sure Brigid Kosgei did it in Chicago with male pacers and new shoes, so maybe that record can drop on a faster course with the right athletes and the right conditions and pacers in a non-World or non-Olympic year, so I’m not saying no, and I would be happy to see you proven right, and even happy to see one or two attempts, even if they don’t succeed.
Frankfurt 2019 they were tearing it up at halfway but Jemeli and Megertu proved they weren’t that class. But I think there are 12-15 better than them now that if they get conditions to suit, could push home harder with a few able to negative split a 67 flat halfway. Like you say: don’t dodge each other. And also like you say, outside a world champs or Olympic year (except that now with the recovery thanks to the shoes, a big tactical event a few months before or after a flat course could work).
liar soorer wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
Then I wonder why 40 pages have been devoted to me rather than Gidey. So many whining crybabies.
The reason is that you subscribe to the view that she is doped to the gils and her contemporaries are liars and cheats. It this goes on to a poster saying that SH should be set fire to and only extinguished when she is deformed.
It is my opinion that a woman who is running as fast as elite men is doping. This isn't a hard conclusion to come to when confidential athlete surveys have indicated an astonishing proportion of championship athletes dope - including males. And she is competitive with men.
The comment about Houlihan is spurious. The only thing that I dispute is the view maintained here that a doping conviction does not make her a doper.
Armstronglivs wrote:
liar soorer wrote:
The reason is that you subscribe to the view that she is doped to the gils and her contemporaries are liars and cheats. It this goes on to a poster saying that SH should be set fire to and only extinguished when she is deformed.
It is my opinion that a woman who is running as fast as elite men is doping. This isn't a hard conclusion to come to when confidential athlete surveys have indicated an astonishing proportion of championship athletes dope - including males. And she is competitive with men.
The comment about Houlihan is spurious. The only thing that I dispute is the view maintained here that a doping conviction does not make her a doper.
You don't know the meaning of "opinion".
Aussiestatman wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
But will these women race together and push themselves and the pace? How often do we see men racing at world record pace, and at the 30km mark you still have 8 to 10 men together? There is a lot of drafting and constant pacing. These sub-2:02 was the result of more than a decade of men in groups pushing the record down, ending in new shoes. Women’s races often start out slow and “tactical” — it’s simply a question of when someone would attempt it.
Sure Brigid Kosgei did it in Chicago with male pacers and new shoes, so maybe that record can drop on a faster course with the right athletes and the right conditions and pacers in a non-World or non-Olympic year, so I’m not saying no, and I would be happy to see you proven right, and even happy to see one or two attempts, even if they don’t succeed.
Frankfurt 2019 they were tearing it up at halfway but Jemeli and Megertu proved they weren’t that class. But I think there are 12-15 better than them now that if they get conditions to suit, could push home harder with a few able to negative split a 67 flat halfway. Like you say: don’t dodge each other. And also like you say, outside a world champs or Olympic year (except that now with the recovery thanks to the shoes, a big tactical event a few months before or after a flat course could work).
We can hope for competitions sake you are right sooner rather than my pessimistic later.
My thinking is that the women are a decade behind the men in demonstrating their true potential in the marathon.
Paula’s record lasted so long, not because it was untouchable, but because of a lack of depth and critical mass, and the aggressiveness and will required to even attempt a record until Mary Keitany tried some 14 years later.
For example, Boston 2014 was a rare exception to women’s marathon racing, where Shalane took it out fast from the gun, and 7 women were still together around 25-30K below course record pace.
On the men’s side, starting from Tergat’s sub-2:05, Geb was the one who started a decade of bringing the marathon record down, before the race transformed from end of career track runners to young runners skipping the track.
Armed with (or is it “feet-ed with”?) new shoes and confidence, the era for women realizing their same potential is still to come.
z5zg4 wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
It is my opinion that a woman who is running as fast as elite men is doping. This isn't a hard conclusion to come to when confidential athlete surveys have indicated an astonishing proportion of championship athletes dope - including males. And she is competitive with men.
The comment about Houlihan is spurious. The only thing that I dispute is the view maintained here that a doping conviction does not make her a doper.
You don't know the meaning of "opinion".
You have just given one. Wrong, without fact and typically shallow, as you are. (That is my opinion of you. You're welcome.)
Armstronglivs wrote:
z5zg4 wrote:
You don't know the meaning of "opinion".
You have just given one. Wrong, without fact and typically shallow, as you are. (That is my opinion of you. You're welcome.)
What have you read to justify your opinion.
The rules perhaps ? No you refuse to.
Armstronglivs wrote:
z5zg4 wrote:
You don't know the meaning of "opinion".
You have just given one. Wrong, without fact and typically shallow, as you are. (That is my opinion of you. You're welcome.)
Your answer clearly illustrates that I was correct with my assessment (not an opinion). But I don't think you will get it now. And, no, that's not my opinion.
Now, let's wait for one (or more) of these reactions
- changing the subject
- insulting
- running away
- demonstrating again without understanding that my assessment was correct
z5zg4 wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
You have just given one. Wrong, without fact and typically shallow, as you are. (That is my opinion of you. You're welcome.)
Your answer clearly illustrates that I was correct with my assessment (not an opinion). But I don't think you will get it now. And, no, that's not my opinion.
Now, let's wait for one (or more) of these reactions
- changing the subject
- insulting
- running away
- demonstrating again without understanding that my assessment was correct
Demonstrates no intellectual curiosity and covers it all up lie after lie.
z5zg4 wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
You have just given one. Wrong, without fact and typically shallow, as you are. (That is my opinion of you. You're welcome.)
Your answer clearly illustrates that I was correct with my assessment (not an opinion). But I don't think you will get it now. And, no, that's not my opinion.
Now, let's wait for one (or more) of these reactions
- changing the subject
- insulting
- running away
- demonstrating again without understanding that my assessment was correct
And your views on the subject of the thread? (which may surprise you isn't me). I am not interested in your opinions of me. You are just another holier-than-thou crybaby.
liar soorer wrote:
z5zg4 wrote:
Your answer clearly illustrates that I was correct with my assessment (not an opinion). But I don't think you will get it now. And, no, that's not my opinion.
Now, let's wait for one (or more) of these reactions
- changing the subject
- insulting
- running away
- demonstrating again without understanding that my assessment was correct
Demonstrates no intellectual curiosity and covers it all up lie after lie.
Yes, you do.
Armstronglivs wrote:
z5zg4 wrote:
Your answer clearly illustrates that I was correct with my assessment (not an opinion). But I don't think you will get it now. And, no, that's not my opinion.
Now, let's wait for one (or more) of these reactions
- changing the subject
- insulting
- running away
- demonstrating again without understanding that my assessment was correct
And your views on the subject of the thread? (which may surprise you isn't me). I am not interested in your opinions of me. You are just another holier-than-thou crybaby.
What a demonstration of an intellectual approach.
Armstronglivs wrote:
liar soorer wrote:
Demonstrates no intellectual curiosity and covers it all up lie after lie.
Yes, you do.
Go well away.