2:19 on 70-80 miles per week.

Simmer it wrote:

Dude, Prove it, gotta chill out dude. Why don't you post your stats? What bona fides do you have to say anything like anyone else on this forum.

Yeah, I was skeptical at first, but hey as a guy myself who works 50 hours a week and 3 kids, I like the simplicity and the fact that I don't have to post super high mileage to get results.

Not sure your obsession over some article, doesnt prove or disprove anything in my books.

I wish Phil the best of luck and hope he accomplishes his goal, so Prove it! can shut up about some stupid article and suck it.

Just my $0.02.

I never claimed to be the next GREAT one, so that point is not logical, actually it was said earlier by Phil himself, hence the connection l was talking about. Give me one shred of evidence backing up this guy's credentials. So if you are applying for a job or selling yourself, like he is to get suckers to seek him out for coaching because he is lying on his credentials, and you get busted do you turn it around on the guy asking and say show me your credentials? Huh? That is what criminal say when they're caught. I am asking JS show me one article on the internet referring to him and not on this site and he can't or you can't, whoever you are. If you are so smart and talking to a Wizard don't you think there would be an article somewhere, some trace?Just a very horrible picture on his site and no pictures with the elites he claims to be close to. I find that odd and anyone with a half of a brain would. We should be able to go to the site and see pictures of him with kipchoge and other greats he claims to work with and at least a trace somewhere on the internet, no the only trace is on Let's Run. Hence the reason why he keeps on posting. So when people Google him they will see all the post and think he some type of Wizard of running, when in fact he is a con.

Sage, l can find you on the internet and there is a footprint of you beside your site. You don't claim to be working with world-beaters eather. Don't you feel that this guy should back up some of this and not just with Phil and a few Kenyans, who if you don't know, harrass everyone for free coaching? There is nothing backing up his credentials, ZERO. I go to your site and l see pictures and so on, but he claims things that when questioned, claims they are confidential, or some weak excuses like the Kenyan Federation won't use him because of online coaching. I mean this dude is claiming to be one of the best in the world, not just your run of the mill online coach.

mwh wrote:

If you think Runners World articles are the measure of hardcore athletics training, then you are the joke.

Ok, l will settle for a small two line article in the nowhere USA paper. Something, give me some type of proof besides this site and a blurry picture on his website. Something where he is mentioned in an article. A real running Wizard should have no problem with that.

Prove it! wrote:

Find my one article

You are suffering from article-aphobia. You need to seek help immediately, and not return till you're cured.

Stop feeding the troll (Prove it).

dunes runner wrote:

Prove it! wrote:

Find my one article

You are suffering from article-aphobia. You need to seek help immediately, and not return till you're cured.

WTF, just prove it. The dude is a total lie.

Habib wrote:

Stop feeding the troll (Prove it).

JS getting up late today.

Ok this is my 2 cents after following this for the last few months. Phil is doing 48 miles per week and there doesn't seem to be any back down period. The JS says he keeps this up year around the same formula of 2 workouts/15-20 400 s and 20 x1ks a week, give or take some variance. That is a recipe for disaster. I looked over and infact saw his prize pupil Phil had a period in October where he could go no more. Some people might have limited success with this but over the long hall, take an average guy 17 something 5k guy and through him into this and he will utterly be destroyed. This is my 2 cents. Let's see what happens Sunday. Whatever happens this is not a schedule that would be successful for 9 out of 10 runners at the sub elites level. I already see Phil having problems. An experienced coach can see some of what he is saying but l will hold my judgement till Sunday.

I have never said that the Kenyan federation has something to do with my coaching of Kenyan top runners. The problem

is some powerful managements and managers with their own coaches to feed, And once more I tell that I have never claimed that I have coached Kamworor or Kipchoge or Kiprop,,,,,,but it was very close in the cases of Kamworo rand Kiprop! And it`s true that Kamworor asked me to coach an world record attempt back in 2016. And I will prove it to the audience when my first lecture about my system will come.... :)

Prove it is really ruining this thread. He also loses all credibility himself by asking for a Runnersworld or Outside magazine article and mentioning Neely Spence. If you think any of those are sources of serious training information then you need to do a lot of homework. Sounds like just a jealous hobby jogger.

Crazy how the annoying troll on this thread is Prove it and not JS...times have changed.

Side note: Could the JS-coached Phil beat both Sage and Seth? I would laugh

I've thoroughly enjoyed following Phil's journey.

To 'Prove it' please take your beef with JS elsewhere. You're derailing this thread (which is about Phil's journey, not JS) for the rest of us.

"Phil is doing 48 miles per week and there doesn't seem to be any back down period."

Have you seen his Strava!? A steady build up to 66-68 mpw, and now a taper, even with a few days off.

late to this thread...very interesting.

what was your 10 mile time that qualified you for CIM seeded entry. where was the race? have you run any other races?

newphonewhodis wrote:

3. 1 VO2 Max workout each week. Other programs usually have this, but in a a specific phase of a season. However, JS has this season long. From my understanding, the idea is to focus on this pace season long, allowing runners to progress fitness running at VO2max much longer than other programs. He can do this by not having runners completing more taxing VO2 Max sessions (3xmile @ 5k, 6x800 @ 5K, etc). It's an interesting take.

I agree with your post and I also think that JS' training is fairly conventional with perhaps lower mileage than other approaches. I am not sure about this "VO2 Max" workout of 400m repeats. I am not even sure that you could call it a VO2 max workout as I really don't think your HR is going to get up into the VO2 max zone of intensity. If you were to try it you would find it to be sort of demanding but nowhere near being a gut busting workout. The 400m repeats are at your 5K effort/pace and you have a fairly long recovery until your HR gets down to 120 bpm. In comparison John Kellogg suggested using something lilke 20x 400m at around 5k effort but with a short active jog (100m stretch if on the track) as a threshold workout so JS' 400m workout is less demanding. A fairly "classic" workout I used to try was 12 to 16 x 400m at 3k pace/effort with a recovery around 45 secs to 1 min and that was a tough workout and I probably burned myself out trying this too frequently as have done a lot of runners. I can see that JS' 400m workout is going to be repeatable over many weeks as it probably is only in that "threshold zone" in terms of physiological intensity. You may be running a bit faster than threshold pace and I guess that's why he is classifying it as a VO2 max workout as it might help biomecanically to improve your speed at VO2 max intensity down the line.

This has been a fun thread to follow. JS has been good for Phil because Phil has some new variety in training, consistency and accountability. Theoretically he would be better off following a more traditional approach but he may not be as motivated and or as hungry. Marathon training can be a lonely thing, especially since Phil trains solo. I'm sure being in contact with JS helps keep his motivation up.

While JS seems to be naive and bordering on ignorant when it comes to marathon training, I think his system could be good for someone trying to get to a respectable level in the half-marathon and under distance.

I have a friend that reminds me of Phil. He has excellent leg speed and hovered around 60-70 miles a week with 2-3 big sessions a week. His fast days were more impressive than guys under the OTQ but he never got close to 2:20 off that training. Having fast workouts is easier on low volume training because you don't have a lot of cumulative fatigue going on, which is a big key to marathon training.

Once my buddy started training with some ultra guys and increased his mileage to well over 100 miles a week with more moderate type workouts, he became much faster.

If Phil runs under 2:19, JS will be having a field day and will claim his system is the best on Earth because he loves to speak in absolutes.

However, if Phil has a tough day, JS won't recognize it's due to lack of volume or training for the actual conditions of the course (26.2 miles over slow rollers). He will blame it on the weather, fueling issues, Phil's life schedule or anything other than the actual training. Good coaches learn from their mistakes, so hopefully JS will do the same.

I'd love to see Phil nail it because he's out there solo grinding with a full plate. But if he does go out in under 70 minutes, I see his legs falling apart the last 5-10 miles. It will be because of the lack of miles, having an inefficient marathon fuel tank and not being able to handle all of the eccentric loading of the downhills due to not training properly for the course.

With a sub 70 first half, I will be surprised if he breaks 2:22 and see him running somewhere around 2:24. If so, it's still a respective time off his training.

Can someone please answer briefly - if I want to run 2:19 (or so) on 60-80 miles per week (having run 67:30 off 50 MPW), is this massive thread worth reading? I know there are gems on LetsRun - just hard to know for sure which is diamond and which is moissonite.

Phil, I've been following this thread for a while and wish you the best of luck this weekend.

Question for you - would you recommend the JS plan regardless of someone's talent level, or do you think his approach has worked especially well with you so far based on your strengths and the fact that you do have an impressive background/lifetime base mileage?

We have a lot in common - 30s, WIAC alum, two young kids, busy jobs, similar builds, impressive salary/wife attractiveness - but you're a whole lot faster than me (I do have a full head of hair though). Do you think this basic template (400s, LT repeats, long run) is feasible regardless of someone's profile, or are there any adjustments you'd make for novices/the less talented?

Sorry Prove it! if I'm making your head explode from the free publicity JS is getting, but this thread has piqued my interest as someone who has to train on limited time.

Why do you think JS needs to prove anything to you? He's been on many threads here promoting his system. He has every right to do that. Many people are skeptical. They have every right to be, as do you. Some are intrigued and Phil decided to take JS up on his offer to coach him in his shot at 2:19. They have every right to do that. Many of us here have been interested in what will happen. But while you have the right to express your skepticism the way you're doing it seems like axe grinding and your continual demands that JS "prove it" to your satisfaction seems really entitled. You're not going to get what you want here no matter how big a tantrum you throw. A mature person would accept that and move on.