A closer look at EPO-era performances

and i have a right to say EPO and PEDs dont work, yet somehow i always get deleted...and yet you keep on lying about it. you lied you would take a break and you didnt, you lie lie lie lie lie. i will keep asking the brojos to control your actions or delete this thread entirely

you got it gary? you might think you are king kong on LR but you will eventually out live your welcome

rekrunner wrote:

I did reserve the right to defend myself, predicting some personal responses directed at me.

erythrocitations wrote:

Way to step away from this thread... You just can't help yourself.

Yes, you manufactured a reason to keep trolling your own thread.

gary lough.....amateur troll at best. only reason its lasting this long is cause he wont let it die, or let it be deleted.

i think gary has the same mentality as trump. takes credit for things he has no knowledge of, and lies and lies and lies, lies about his lies and lies about the truth and lies about lying about the lies about lying about the truth.

then like trump calling anything "fake news" he doesnt like, gary just deletes things he doesnt like. just cause you dont like it doesnt make it FAKE.

all right who did it? or did i delete my own thread!?!? this is prosperous i tell you

Gary Lough where is renato?

he is currently hiding out in kenya, it is very remote and no cell reception, but no worries lads, he is painstakingly collecting all the blood data from his stable of top tier runners. these results will go into his ever growing database that is held at the Google headquarters, no way a russian will hack into it.

let it be known that he we resurface approx 2 weeks before the London Marathon (my wife will be there for autographs and to show the proper pooping technique while en-route of a marathon), where he will inform us of the 35k time trial at 7800ft, where 4 or 5 no names dropped a fast time and how kipchoge has a decent motor but is so much more mindstrong than anyone he has ever seen....besides my wife. he will inform us that he has heard rumors that KB sustained a calf injury and is only at 79% and only has 4.5 weeks of training under his belt.

then someone will argue with him and he will get mad, grumpy and call people names, leaving no choice by the beloved brojos to delete the entire thread.

For the last time - I never said I am Gary Lough. I occasionally deny it, but only for the benefit of others not you. As Paula has said - 'don't feed the trolls Gary'.

There is no discrepancies between my claims that Africans are better runners, that PEDs don't work, and that Paula is clean. If you read closely, they confirm, reaffirm, and logically buttress one another.

Paula's poo has been analyzed by independent labs and has been found to contain a percentage of common trace salts usually found at such levels in the scatalogical outpourings of female members of the Katawumba tribe in remote areas of East Africa. In other words, she is an outlier. You can find all this on Wikipedia.

WrekRunner wrote:

For the last time - I never said I am Gary Lough. I occasionally deny it, but only for the benefit of others not you. As Paula has said - 'don't feed the trolls Gary'.

There is no discrepancies between my claims that Africans are better runners, that PEDs don't work, and that Paula is clean. If you read closely, they confirm, reaffirm, and logically buttress one another.

Paula's poo has been analyzed by independent labs and has been found to contain a percentage of common trace salts usually found at such levels in the scatalogical outpourings of female members of the Katawumba tribe in remote areas of East Africa. In other words, she is an outlier. You can find all this on Wikipedia.

i never use other handles besides "gary", i have know idea who wejo is, pariah is, rekrunner is....but somehow i did write this, i think someone is trying to troll me? or deer lord...maybe i have been posting with so many handles i dont know who i am anymore....its like that movie "split"......and the beast Renato is coming

Is someone having a nervous breakdown on this thread?

Everything I've learned I've learned from public sources like goggle.

I restored a bunch of posts to this thread.

I saw some reference to us "protecting Paula" and looked into this. I contacted the moderator who had deleted the posts in this thread. I told him that mindweak was entitled to say he thought Paula was dirty.

The moderator said he knew that, but that he deleted the posts because mindweak was harassing rekrunner. After reading many of the deleted posts I see what he was talking about.

Mindweak kept posting the same thing over and over, mocking rekrunners beliefs (it's fine to disagree with someone just don't be a jerk about it), then accused rekrunner of being Gary Lough, said we confirmed it was Gary Lough (we never did such a thing) and then even had a few sexual posts that were totally inappropriate.

So I tried to restore posts that weren't too personal in nature or attacking someone or full of falsehoods (saying we confirmed rekrunner was Gary Lough).

I'm going to ban mindweak (if you can consider posting civilly email me at

wejo@letsrun.com

) and I'm going to make this thread so you have to register to post. The other thing mindweak was doing was posting under various names. Now some of these were obvious weakermind or something like that but then he took to "Gary Lough".

wejo wrote:

I restored a bunch of posts to this thread.

I saw some reference to us "protecting Paula" and looked into this. I contacted the moderator who had deleted the posts in this thread. I told him that mindweak was entitled to say he thought Paula was dirty.

The moderator aid he knew that, but that he deleted the posts because mindweak was harassing rekrunner. After reading many of the deleted posts I see what he was talking about.

a) Thank you for restoring posts.

b) Fine, but mindweak's posts were only a few of the deleted ones... others were deleted just for pointing out inconvenient facts.

ALL CHEATERS wrote:

EPO is not a magic equalizer, it is a performance enhancing drug. For example, it could make a 13:10 runner into a 12:55 runner and a 12:50 runner into a 12:40 runner, but not a 13:10 runner into a 12:40 runner.

I would be very careful regarding improvements with EPO especially in '90 without possible detection.

Claiming that 13:10 runner can't be 12:40 runner...

While possible, I think that can only work for the rare high responder. Note that only three men have ever run under 12:40, and each one of them only once, while there were easily over 1000 sub-13:10 performances, beginning in the 70s.

So - let me correct myself to:

EPO is not a magic equalizer, it is a performance enhancing drug. For example, it could easily make a 13:10 runner into a 12:55 runner and a 12:50 runner into a 12:40 runner, but normally not a 13:10 runner into a 12:40 runner.

Ok, "time-in".

rekrunner wrote:

I think it's time for me to take an EPO myth-busting timeout.

I won't guarantee for how long, ...

What fun -- resurrecting a 2-year dormant thread.

Interesting analysis. You don't add any comments yourself, so I guess it's up to us to guess the point?

Here are some of my comments:

- He looks for associations between better all time and world record performances with various doping and doping testing milestones, finding them for 10000m, but not finding similar patterns for 100m or 1500m.

- This point should interest Sprintgeezer: for the 100m, all the data and analysis is inconclusive: "we are left with a startling choice - either doping is ineffective, or we cannot distinguish between a group of known dopers and a random selection of the same size from the all-time list. The inescapable and unpalatable conclusion is that most of the world 's top 100m runners are doped." I note that the choice is not exclusive. Both choices can be true. The data and analysis brings us no closer to deciding. In other words, whatever bias you brought going into the analysis remains uncontradicted.

- The 10000m seems to support a hypothesis built on EPO effect, improved testing, and subsequent microdosing. One thing he ignores, which I felt was important to highlight in this thread -- nearly all of the 10000m performances (sub-27) in this analysis comes from East Africans. Of the athletes who broke 27 (by Jan 2018), 54 were East Africans, 2 were North Africans (Hissou and Mourhit), and 2 were non-Africans (Rupp and Solinsky). Rupp and Solinsky occurred after the ABP. He also ignores the context of the event itself, and how external factors have changed over three decades.

- For the 1500m, there are no graphs, but the summary finding is that "there is no similar trend (as the 10000m)" and "The periods before and after EPO testing becomes effective are markedly similar."

The main question with this approach and analysis is what can we conclude from it? Did we learn something new? Can we eliminate any false hypotheses? He starts with a hypothesis related to doping and testing and performance, and looks for confirmation. I don't see how this is different than "confirmation bias". We could start with alternative non-doping hypotheses about East and North African potential, introduction of European training in East Africa, incentive and rivalries, and the growing and declining opportunities to run fast10000m times, and find similar support from the same analysis of the data.

Regarding your third point- again you are openly admitting that your absurd hypothesis that EPO doesn't work rests on the equally absurd value judgement that it is racist to suppose that East Africans could dope more than others.

Didn't you learn in logic class that you cannot derive an is from an ought, anymore than an ought from an is?

For all your walls of text and 'analysis' you are no different to the dopjng apologists who simply scream racist at me for claiming most African greats were doped.

You're a thinking man's ex-runner, lol!

Coevett wrote:

Regarding your third point- again you are openly admitting that your absurd hypothesis that EPO doesn't work rests on the equally absurd value judgement that it is racist to suppose that East Africans could dope more than others.

Didn't you learn in logic class that you cannot derive an is from an ought, anymore than an ought from an is?

For all your walls of text and 'analysis' you are no different to the dopjng apologists who simply scream racist at me for claiming most African greats were doped.

You're a thinking man's ex-runner, lol!

I don't have a hypothesis that "EPO doesn't work".

I do not dismiss suppositions of African doping "more" as racist, but as unfounded.

In any case, supplementing hypotheses with suppositions does nothing to advance the argument.

You are both wrong. "most of the world 's top 100m runners are doped" is a fact neither a conclusion nor a choice.

Top-10

Bolt (doped trainer partner)

Blake - doped

Gay - doped

Powell - doped

Gatlin - doped

Coleman (3 whereabout failures in 10 months)

Carter - doped

Greene - doped

Mullings - doped

Thompson

Facts: 4 of the top-5 doped; 7 of the top-10 doped (and two more highly suspect). Coleman would have been banned by now, had the USADA tester not wasted his time, and initiate the testing at 7:59 instead of 8:01. Lucky guy...

Bias? LOL

I don't find that important. I also don't find it important to point out the heritage of the top-100 m sprinters.

And yet, the 1500 has slowed down too since the introduction of the ABP/better EPO testing.