ZANE ROBERTSON POPPED FOR EPO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Claimed he went for Covid-19 vaccine, was given EPO instead.

slowwer wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

You consistently refused to list the Kenyan world record holders against the events from 800-marathon when asked to do so. It was obvious why. There were only a measly 4 of them. Such a pitiful digression from a thread about yet another case of doping from Kenya - where there are way more dopers than world record-holders. Just because you think a trivial and irrelevant point is important doesn't make it so. But it's all you've got.

The original point was, that Kenya already before 1980 was extremely successful in men's track distance running (Kenya practically has not competed in the Marathon in these days). I have backed up this claim by an enormous amount of data.
You denied that claim ("success") again and again.

You did so by
- pure lying (2 WRs by Kenyans instead of the correct number of 10, ignoring Olympic Golds and so on)
- putting together the results of different nations (!!)
- trying to ridicule any Kenyan achievement (they were slow!!, they were losers)
- giving results from outside the given time frame
- adding non track results
- giving results for women (African women practically couldn't compete in these days in top level sports)
- completely ignoring arguments
- trying to ridicule the achievements of specific runners ("13:16" > "13:24")
After some months it seems you finally accepted how unbelievable wrong you were on some accounts (for sure you would never admit to it).
Now you constantly point on the facts, that Kenyans have not set WRs in the 880y, 1000y indoors, 3 Miles, 6 Miles! It's not to beat in it's pure ridiculousness (the last WRs in the 3 Miles and 6 Miles were set in 1965 and bettered shortly after by intermediate times in metric races)
Only four Kenyans who have set WRs! ONLY! All four did in Olympic events.

The other nations?

NZ 1
Australia 2.5 (Doubell)
UK 2
USA 1.5 (Wohlhuter)
Belgium 2
Finland 2

Cuba 1

Italy 1

Tanzania 1

That Kenya was the most successful nation in the given period does not follow from those numbers. But with all the other stats which I gave it's hard to argue against it.

There are five Olympic track distances. In three of them two different Kenyans have set a WR. In the other two events, Kenyans have reached the no. 2 position: 0.07 seconds behind the WR in the 800m (Boit) , 0.9 seconds behind the WR in the 1500m (Jipcho on 3) and 1.8 behind (Keino on 2).

In the important non Olympic events, Kenyans have set WRs (3000m) or have become the 2nd fastest in history (Mile). Also in the less important 1000m. Not in the 1000y indoors, you are right here.
So, in any event Kenya has reached at least the no. 2 position in the all-time list. This is impressive. GB was close and did even better in the years to come.

slowwer wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

Before 1980:

800m/880y - nil Kenyan world records

1000m - nil Kenyan world records

1500m - nil Kenyan world records

1 mile - nil Kenyan world records

2000m - nil Kenyan world records

2 miles - nil Kenyan world records

3 miles - nil Kenyan world records

6 miles - nil Kenyan world records

Marathon - nil Kenyan world records.

Indoors - nil Kenyan world records

Olympic champions - 2.

(And yes - Kenyans did race imperial distances in the sixties, which were common then - they didn't only enter metric events.)

What were you saying about how great they were?

Not a single word did I say "how great they were".
I just said again and again that Kenya was the most successful nation in men's track distance running in the period 1964 - 1979. This sentence obviously is way beyond anything you can comprehend - to see in any post you do to this very easily understandable fact (for any not completely deluded person) .

I have backed up this by an enormous amount of statistical data. But it seems you still disagree? But you are not giving a single argument why (completely wrong numbers don't help to prove your point - comprehenda?).

For sure did Kenyans race also Mile distances - who has said something different? For the 10th time exclusively for you (don't worry, I will do it 10 more times for you, I know you are handicapped): after 1965 there were no more WRs achieved in 3 Miles and the 6 Miles races. The 1965 WRs over those distances were bettered shortly after they were achieved as intermediate times in metric distances (have you understood this sentence?). Any subsequent WR in the 5k and the 10k (in the period in question: Viren, Puttemans, Quax, Rono in the 5k and Viren, Bedford, Kimobwa, Rono in the 10k) for sure also would have bettered the 3M or 6M mark. That you point on this completely irrelevant fact again and again shows that you don't have a single argument for your claim - small hint: there is no such argument).

What you are trying to say with your list is the following:

800m: no.2 all-time, 0.07 seconds over the WR
1000m: no. 2 all-time, 1.4 seconds over the WR
1500m: no. 2 all-time, 1.8 seconds over the WR + no. 3 all-time, 0.9 seconds over the WR
Mile: no. 2 all-time, 2 seconds over the WR + no. 2 all-time, 1 second over the WR
3000m: two different athletes who set a WR (1 stood for 7 years, the other for 11 years)
5000m: two different athletes who set a WR
10000m: two different athletes who set a WR (1 stood for 6 years)
steeple: two different athletes who set a WR (1 stood for 11 years)

Top 2 all-time in any event (apart from the extremely important 2000m), this is some extremely impressive statistic, which is one of the many I gave to show why Kenya was the most successful nation.

Don't bother to ask again Army, I will give you the necessary informations as often as needed until you understand (you finally also have understood that 2 is not the correct answer when Kenyans have set 10 WRs).

I see you still can't count the Olympic champions? You have got this already 3 months ago - but you will find also this info within the next few months again.

Was the Marathon in New Zealand in the 1960s and the 1970s run on the track? If not, no need to list it again and again: it's not the subject.

Armstronglivs wrote:

slowwer wrote:

Not a single word did I say "how great they were".
I just said again and again that Kenya was the most successful nation in men's track distance running in the period 1964 - 1979. This sentence obviously is way beyond anything you can comprehend - to see in any post you do to this very easily understandable fact (for any not completely deluded person) .

I have backed up this by an enormous amount of statistical data. But it seems you still disagree? But you are not giving a single argument why (completely wrong numbers don't help to prove your point - comprehenda?).

For sure did Kenyans race also Mile distances - who has said something different? For the 10th time exclusively for you (don't worry, I will do it 10 more times for you, I know you are handicapped): after 1965 there were no more WRs achieved in 3 Miles and the 6 Miles races. The 1965 WRs over those distances were bettered shortly after they were achieved as intermediate times in metric distances (have you understood this sentence?). Any subsequent WR in the 5k and the 10k (in the period in question: Viren, Puttemans, Quax, Rono in the 5k and Viren, Bedford, Kimobwa, Rono in the 10k) for sure also would have bettered the 3M or 6M mark. That you point on this completely irrelevant fact again and again shows that you don't have a single argument for your claim - small hint: there is no such argument).

What you are trying to say with your list is the following:

800m: no.2 all-time, 0.07 seconds over the WR
1000m: no. 2 all-time, 1.4 seconds over the WR
1500m: no. 2 all-time, 1.8 seconds over the WR + no. 3 all-time, 0.9 seconds over the WR
Mile: no. 2 all-time, 2 seconds over the WR + no. 2 all-time, 1 second over the WR
3000m: two different athletes who set a WR (1 stood for 7 years, the other for 11 years)
5000m: two different athletes who set a WR
10000m: two different athletes who set a WR (1 stood for 6 years)
steeple: two different athletes who set a WR (1 stood for 11 years)

Top 2 all-time in any event (apart from the extremely important 2000m), this is some extremely impressive statistic, which is one of the many I gave to show why Kenya was the most successful nation.

Don't bother to ask again Army, I will give you the necessary informations as often as needed until you understand (you finally also have understood that 2 is not the correct answer when Kenyans have set 10 WRs).

I see you still can't count the Olympic champions? You have got this already 3 months ago - but you will find also this info within the next few months again.

Was the Marathon in New Zealand in the 1960s and the 1970s run on the track? If not, no need to list it again and again: it's not the subject.

It's hard to keep track of goal posts that shift so much.

But what you don't address is that the amount of doping we now see in Kenya running raises justifiable doubts about what they achieved before 1980. Doping didn't begin in the last decade. It has been part of the sport since at least the late '60's, and certainly the '70's, when Kenyan athletes started to come to the fore in the sport. Coincidentally, so did the E Germans. We know why.

slowwer wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

It's hard to keep track of goal posts that shift so much.

But what you don't address is that the amount of doping we now see in Kenya running raises justifiable doubts about what they achieved before 1980. Doping didn't begin in the last decade. It has been part of the sport since at least the late '60's, and certainly the '70's, when Kenyan athletes started to come to the fore in the sport. Coincidentally, so did the E Germans. We know why.

I have not shifted anything just by an inch - liar.

Since months I have stated exactly the same:

In the period 1964 - 1979 (16 full seasons in a row, 4 Olympic cycles) Kenya was the most successful nation in men's track distance running.

What you wanted to say is: this sentence is way beyond your capabilities.

You have shown so dozens of times (you have given women's results, road results, results outside this time frame, you have added results from different nations, you pointed on the most stupid things (no records in the 1000y indoors...), you changed numbers in a dramatically way. And so on. You just proofed again and again to be plain stupid. Unable to search for the most easy results (even now unable to look for some Olympic champions).

So you think the reason for the Kenyan success in the 1960s and the 1970s was only doping? Any argument for this claim? I don't think it to be true, but I will listen to your arguments (if you have any...).

Lets's wait to hear what the letsrun non-checker no. 1 has to say - nothing substantial, I'm sure.