Soup to Nuts - Letsrun Train Me

Of, I have been giving PM's question about the resumption of my training more thought. I am certain that I am now on the mend and I think I'll likely get in some easy miles running next week.

If I'm ready to resume training at the end of next week, that gives me 13 weeks until August 6, which I had established as my goal for reaching a summer peak.

With 13 weeks I thought I might create a short season in the Daniels format. It would look something like this:

3 weeks phase I , base training

4 weeks phase II, speed training

4 weeks phase III, interval training

2 weeks phase IV, peaking

Thoughts or suggestion?

One other notion, a 10k event has been added to the circuit I'm competing in at the end of August. I could establish that as my new end goal and stretch out the summer quality training 3 more weeks or so before I shift to marathon training in the fall.

1:01:30 10 miler. I think I recovered fairly well from the marathon. Hope everyone is having a great weekend!

VF - I know this is belated, but great marathon with nice pacing. Have not read Pfitz, but the philosophy bits I have heard from other runners sound like the best I have heard. I have to admit I'm a bit behind in my study of the marathon.

ID - Some nice posts there. You may be self-described OCD, but you don't sound like it right now. I like the idea of seasons, just like we did back in the day. I'm glad someone explained proper rest in a way that clicked with you. For me, sometimes it just seems like I need to hit the reset button and be a non-runner for a couple of days to both let adjustments solidify and just get some rest. Back to the P90Xr philosophy, what could be more confusing to the muscles than running for 3 weeks straight, followed by a couple of days off?

I like the plan for the next 13 weeks. And I want to say that I went to the track for the first time in many weeks yesterday and it was very encouraging. 200, 400, 600, 800, and 1000 all under 20s/100m pace and I have to admit the pace felt slower than it did in my 5k im March. I credit this to the 'spectrums' I regularly run. Although I may not have specifically mentioned this before, I briefly get the pace down to much faster than 20s/100m and it seems to be paying off. As John Cook says, our bodies are not stupid, they simply react to the training. A couple of brief fast paced segments when our bodies feel right is not very risky and the cumulative effect really does add up. To me, this is the best way to lay down the base for medium distance races, and if anything, it makes the transition between phases easier.

It also occured to me that it might matter less what type of philosophy you incorporate into your plan as much as how well you execute it. And I really believe in adjusting any plan to the events of the day. Pushing hard when it doesn't feel right or running easy because it's what the plan calls for should always be reconsidered if an opportunity to rest or push presents itself on any given day.

Thanks PM. On paper it looks less even than my previous PR, but in reality I think it was a much better race.

I'm sold on Pfitz. My friend who ran the women's Oly trials at age 46(?) was the one who turned me on to him. I do think next time around I might need/want to vary some things a bit just to change the training stimulus on my body - but I won't change anything too much.

Right now though I'm entering an odd situation. I'm now planning on training to run a) 100 mi. in 24 hours and b) under 17 in a 5k. That brings me to my question for you PM - can you give me a more detailed description of how you run your "Spectrums"? It sounds like a concept the might be particularly useful to me given my goals.

In the simplest sense, spectrums are just gradual accelerations. The distance can be as short as around 200m to as long as a couple of kilometers and the precise distance is made up as I go. The top speed is always determined at the moment and is not held for long at all. Constantly and gradually changing the pace is the theme here, so we should be continuing to accelerate or stop the spectrum as soon as anything tells us it's a good idea to slow down.

It should also be noted that there is a big mental aspect to these as well. It's important to feel strong, cautious, and inspired while doing these. Each spectrum is an opportunity to capture some form of greatness and carry it forward to an ever increasing pace. Your greatness could be in focus, relaxation, smoothness, or something else that presents itself at the moment.

I have been getting great results from this type of training and here is my take on some of the reasons:

- Changing the pace continually activates a changing 'spectrum' of muscle fibers as we go. It's mind boggling to think how our brain determines which muscle fibers are activated, but constantly changing the pace seems to give a very comprehensive workout to as many fibers as possible.

- By constantly changing which fibers are used, the fiber workload is more distributed, making muscle recovery easier. However, my last two marathon experiences have convinced me that sustained race pace work is also required for the longer races to give those fibers the proper training to handle the constant activation during the race.

- By mentally thinking "strong" and "cautious", perhaps more fibers can be activated at a given time as we increase the pace. It is my belief that this is only possible while things are feeling optimal and unstrained, as our brain will activate the protection mechanisms and shut down some fibers if potential injury to the connective tissue is detected.

- Biomechanics are enhanced at the faster paces as various forms of optimization are carried forward from the slower paces.

- By thinking "inspired" as well as "cautious", some very fast paces can sometimes be realized at the end of the spectrums. The proper way to have this happen is to let it happen when it happens. As stated before, the top end speed is not predetermined and the spectrum is stopped when any signal says it's over. As long as we have 'green lights across the board', we continue to increase the pace without a predetermined limit.

In summary, spectrums are just gradual increases in the pace. The length, top speed, and rate of pace increase are variable and made up as we go.

Thanks for the well put response PM. You danced around my asking for specifics, but I can see exactly why based on your philosophy for "spectrums". I do now have a much better sense of how you do these runs and I will incorporate the ideas into my running.

Two small questions if I may. Do you end up considering these "workouts" or is it more along the lines of something you mix into any/most of your running? Though the length of the "spectrums" themselves are completely subjective and variable, is there a more typical total run distance that you make them a part of? As a corollary, over what portion of the run do you spread the "spectrums"?

VF, it may sound completely subjective and variable, but it's not really. There are rules that I incorporate. The mind must be strong, cautious, relaxed, focused, and inspired. Each runup is simply an exploration begun from a very slow pace without any predetermination of the future or anticipation of results. Stop signals are never ignored. Things like anger and obsession have no place while performing a spectrum as they cloud the judgement.

That being said, I do frequently have areas of my training that I am looking for opportunities as the spectrum progresses. If I am in a 'mega miles' phase of my training, I may spend lots of time running the pace up from slow to tempo pace, then progress from there to top end rapidly, with the intention to simply touch those paces rather than work them.

I do incorporate this changing pace idea into most of my training, even intervals. If I'm doing laps in 80, I'm thinking of running 75 pace in midstraight and 85 at the apex of the turn. On the track is the one place I have tried the gradual deceleration as well as acceleration. As far as how often I do these, my intention is to try and do some of these every workout, but my body's reaction is the ruling factor. Patience is easy when things don't feel right because the next workout is simply another opportunity. The workout plan may say rest, but if the body says go, I go.

I thought of some other factors to mention about training with spectrums. One of the most positive things I've realized is that running this way allows some valuable work to be done without the debilitating post workout fatigue that many hard workouts produce. Real life can continue without most of the post workout hangover. Many of my sessions end with me feeling more energized than fatigued. It may be true that more of a forward leap could have been grabbed by doing a hard workout. But I believe that running the whole range of paces provides such a comprehensive training stimulus that a net positive day is achieved quite easily, leaving room for almost anything you want to do the next day.

The biggest thing I'm trying to keep in mind with this type of unstructured workout is what to do on the days I feel particularly good. Those are the days that seem to be a hazard, not the normal or subpar days. A couple of months after I started playing with the pace in this way, even very fast paces feel very much in control when things are clicking right and I've found that it's easy to overdo things almost without realizing it. I think this partly has to do with the fact that your body gets the most tired at the end of the spectrum, while running the fastest paces. It gets very tempting to hold a very fast pace for as long as possible or simply include too many spectrum runups into a single workout.

For me, this type of training has produced positive results in a very efficient way. Now if I can just remember that what I should do is less than what I can do on the days I feel good.

Hi Impossible Dream,

Thanks for this great story. I'm just getting back into running after 8 years of rest and reading.

I was hoping you could give us a summary of your weight and race time progression since you started this thread.

Thanks

Impossible Dream wrote:

With 13 weeks I thought I might create a short season in the Daniels format. It would look something like this:

3 weeks phase I , base training

4 weeks phase II, speed training

4 weeks phase III, interval training

2 weeks phase IV, peaking

Thoughts or suggestion?

One other notion, a 10k event has been added to the circuit I'm competing in at the end of August. I could establish that as my new end goal and stretch out the summer quality training 3 more weeks or so before I shift to marathon training in the fall.

Hi all,

Back now after a few days offline.

That looks very sensible. I suggest that we interpret 'base training' quite broadly and incorporate some gently graduated drills and strides (flat or uphill) in small quantities into Phase 1. Also, you don't want to try and bang out three 80-mile weeks just because "it's Phase 1" and you managed that a couple of months back; the main thing is to just get used to running again and let the mileage build to wherever it wants to.

I can't actually see a need for a formal 'end of season' break before lengthening out into a marathon. A lot of people in the UK do a summer track season, then ten weeks of high mileage going into a late October marathon. Hopefully you'll be feeling really good mechanically after your 'speed season', and will carry that into a good 10k.

I agree with all the comments on recovery - but maybe I'm spoiled in that regard, as I think I tend to undertrain. Half my runs to work and back are a 'zombie shuffle', at least once a week something comes up and I am just too busy to train, and if I feel really tired I just skip half a day and take the bus ;-) So I've actually forgotten what it feels like to push hard day after day after day. I can say with some certainty that two good sessions a week, with lots of easy running in between, result in rapid improvements for me at least.

I also agree with PM about stopping while it still feels good. Two aspects to this: first, physiologically, you just need a stimulus to improve; and secondly, in terms of neural learning, when your form starts to get suspect you probably aren't practising anything useful.

Hello all!

I'm feeling guilty for not replying to posts in a few days. Unfortunately, this post will just be a "check in" thanks and a promise to post later. Life is busy these days.

Ok, again only a quick moment for an update. Unfortunately not good news. Last week was washed in terms of time to get treatment. Did some household chores one day and mowed the lawn on another day and both activities caused soreness in my Achilles.

Frustrating that such benign activities are giving me problems, so I decided to schedule an appointment with an orthopedist and get a proper diagnosis and treatment plan.

That will be tomorrow. I'll let you all know how it goes.

Fingers crossed for you ID.

I know you had said you were very busy, but it was getting to be long enough that I was worried there was more going on. It may sound weird, but I sure hope your Doc finds something useful. The worst is when they say "I know you've been injured, but I can't find anything specific that is causing it."

VF,

Last week was going to be busy with everything going smoothly, but I ended up having to fire a long term employee and absorb all his work into my schedule. The next couple of months are going to be tough at work for that reason.

I am also hoping for something definitive from the doc so I can have a plan moving forward. Thanks for checking in.

Sorry to hear that. Having to fire people is horribly stressful.

Strangely enough, chores and gardening frequently upset my back, which is my perennial weak point; I was raking up leaves and mowing and could feel it seizing up this weekend.

The other side of the coin to think about is that if it's still bothering you 3-4 weeks after stopping all running, maybe a bit of gentle running won't hurt it. You don't want to lose all of that fitness. Are you keeping up with the leg strength exercises? Are you doing anything for the calves?

Achilles - I had trouble with this for 2 years, ruined two seasons of track etc. etc. I went to PT, tried all kinds of stretches...then I got the problem fixed in 4weeks by doing this.

Eccentric calf raises after ever run.

Go up with both legs, then slowly down with one. 10 per side.

You are older than me - so maybe start with fewer...but I found this cleared things up almost entirely within a few weeks, and by the end of the month I was entirely fixed.

I should re-iterate...the injury had plagued me for years and I was convinced it would be the end of my running 'career'.

Enjoy!

Will

PS: Drop me an email if you have questions.

i sometimes feel that it was my destiny to only be a much slower mile runner. i believe that with my own mentallity i broke 427 and prooved destiny wrong, because thats how hard it was to do. the mind is very beautifull and its amazing the things that it can do with the right ammount of desire, therefore im a firm believer in mind > matter, mentallity > physicallity.

Euro,

Thanks for the post. I figured you could appreciate the stress of firing someone as you are a business owner. This one was hard because he was well liked by all the staff, but his performance was way down and when I went loowing for reasons I had no choice. He was falsifying his work.

I have to admit on the exercise front last week was a real low point for me. With the work stress, my wife getting sick with a nasty sinus infection and several other projects and obligations, something was going to give. I know if I was able to run with out injury I would have, but I was as motivated for all the other stuff I've faithful about all these months.

The good news is that on Sunday morning I mentally turned a corner and rededicated myself to the goals laid out in this thread. I took my wife out for breakfast for Mother's day and I saw a lot of elderly folks who just didn't look like they loved life anymore. Most of them looked overweight. That was a good reminder and motivation for me to renew my commitment to this quest. After all I ultimately want to avoid the condition I witnesses in those old folks.

Will,

That is a very helpful and encouraging post.

Regarding your runs when your Achilles was still bothering you, were you running with some pain and then doing the eccentric calf raises?

I'm curious to hear about the running you were doing then.

I've had the eccentric calf raises brought up several times so I have finally started to incorporate them starting last night. 3 sets of 10, just my body weight. I did another session this morning.

I'll keep everyone updated on the progress.