The more I think about this, which I don't want to do, the more I realize Nike and Salazar can burn to the ground.
Yeah, Liter infusions of an amino acid in a way that would beat detection. Yeah, shipping T-Gel in hollowed-out books. Yeah, testing T-Gel on the kids to see how to beat a test.
Yeah, none of this used on an active athlete. My ass.
The funniest thing that a standard 6 week cycle of EPO is CHEAPER than high dosage carnitine...
Of course they were taking extreme care at not being caught.
Of course they were trying to do anything, legal or ilegal, to enhance the performance of their athletes.
Of course everyone, from the Nike CEO down, was involved.
That's what the report proves.
They were not trying to stay within the rules, just not to be caught.
It’s clear Jack Frost has some skin in the game.
Anyway, when it comes to these threads I’m always curious: if Brojos pulled IPs would they find all the posters defending Nike coming from, say... A single IP on the northern west coast? The similarities in writing style between multiple posters are already quite obvious.
your brain isn't functional wrote:
you are a bigger imbecile than Flagpole Willy wrote:
That is a two and a half year old article.
Read the report. There is no sanction for vitamins or supplements.
0/10, retard. Salazar used prohibited supplements.
No he didn't. L-carnitine is not prohibited.
If you are going to continue with this, quote the actual report where he was banned for prohibited supplements.
How naive can you be? wrote:
Jack Frost wrote:
If he did, yes. However no one has alleged that and it certainly was not established. Now we're in the thought crime zone. What a load.
The whole episode, the way it has been spun out and everything else is just so completely and utterly ridiculous.
L Carnitine is an amino acid involved in converting fat to ATP which is a very slow process and can't BOOST VO2 MAX.
For anyone to believe it especially Magness, just beggars belief.
It seems to me that Salazar is paying dearly for his own naivety.
I've read a lot of the nonsense (sad to admit) and this quote IMO sums up the witch hunt here..
Sorry to those SJW out there..
Coffee Bacon wrote:
How naive can you be? wrote:
The whole episode, the way it has been spun out and everything else is just so completely and utterly ridiculous.
L Carnitine is an amino acid involved in converting fat to ATP which is a very slow process and can't BOOST VO2 MAX.
For anyone to believe it especially Magness, just beggars belief.
It seems to me that Salazar is paying dearly for his own naivety.
I've read a lot of the nonsense (sad to admit) and this quote IMO sums up the witch hunt here..
Sorry to those SJW out there..
"Naivety" is a strange word to apply to someone who has been experimenting with chemical enhancement, with the aid of physicians, since his competition days over 30 years ago. Alberto knew exactly what he was doing. It is "naive" to imagine otherwise.
The fascinating thing to me is how much stock Alberto puts in things that are basically pseudoscience.
The violation was the rate of infusion, and I agree with other posters that, when looking at the letter of the law, the substance infused is irrelevant. It is, however, interesting to consider the fact that the law was certainly not created to prevent the infusion of vitamins.
The testosterone testing is by far the more concerning thing for me. Sure, Alberto has emails from around the time which make his explanation plausible, but I can certainly imagine a scenario where he is performing tests with the goal of beating the tester.
There is also an incredible lack of medical understanding in the discussion of this case. I saw one athlete state that Salazar tried to give her pills from his “personal stash of prescription Celebrex”. That’s basically Advil. Also, there is no way Galen would be on daily prednisone as another source claimed - that would 100% make him slower with chronic use.
Yes, the rate of the infusion give to... Steve Magness.
And the idea of any athlete, specifically an endurance athlete, using prednisone long term is laughable. Other than the obvious weight gain and bloated appearance it would fundamentally weaken your bone density and throw a wrench in your ability to regulate blood sugar levels.
Does anyone else remember the Justin Gailtin-Trevor Graham-Chris Whetstine saga that was the catalyst for the phobia of tainted-by-massage testosterone fears? In context this is all a lot less shocking and nefarious than most seem to hunger for it to be.
What about the context of him taking testosterone as an athlete and having an athlete busted for testosterone doping? Does anyone else remember that?
Also your whole OP is based on a false premise.
Jack Frost wrote:
Yes, the rate of the infusion give to... Steve Magness.
And the idea of any athlete, specifically an endurance athlete, using prednisone long term is laughable. Other than the obvious weight gain and bloated appearance it would fundamentally weaken your bone density and throw a wrench in your ability to regulate blood sugar levels.
Does anyone else remember the Justin Gailtin-Trevor Graham-Chris Whetstine saga that was the catalyst for the phobia of tainted-by-massage testosterone fears? In context this is all a lot less shocking and nefarious than most seem to hunger for it to be.
I agree - definitely blown out of proportion by individuals (and website owners) who LOVE to see Alberto fall. This is the Louis CK “Me Too”, not the Harvey Weinstein.
Alberto clearly has been pushing the line (whether or not in sensible areas that actually pose benefit for his athletes, that’s another question) and has strayed across it. It also appears that he (or at least Dr. Brown) tampered with records in an attempt to cover up his tracks. This is all clearly against the spirit of sport and I don’t have objection to a ban.
What he is really guilty of, though, is being an a$$hole. If you are nice and treat all athletes well (and don’t unceremoniously kick them to the curb) they will not turn around and point the finger.
Jack Frost wrote:
Does it bother anyone else that the entire doping violation hinges upon Magness, who was employed by Nike in a coaching capacity, meeting the USADA definition of an athlete? Speaking only with respect to the actual scope of the investigation as detailed in the reports the entirety of their conclusion is total bullsh-t. It is akin to charging and convicting someone with a conspiracy in which there is no underlying crime or intent to commit a crime. L-carnitine does nothing. You can purchase it by the pound on Amazon.com. Alberto needs to fire his legal team and pick up someone else with experience against ridiculous panels that have dubious standards of proof and operate with wanton subjectivity in their interpretation of WADA code and by-laws.
I'm all for outing and punishing people who cheat but this has simply been bungled.
You understand that the arbitration panel is not USADA affiliated, right?
On a scale of doping ; 2/10
On a scale of bull stuff media ; 8/10
durianrider wrote:
The funniest thing that a standard 6 week cycle of EPO is CHEAPER than high dosage carnitine...
EPO = DOA / permaban
High dosage L-carnitine = under the radar
Unbiased spectator wrote:
It’s clear Jack Frost has some skin in the game.
Anyway, when it comes to these threads I’m always curious: if Brojos pulled IPs would they find all the posters defending Nike coming from, say... A single IP on the northern west coast? The similarities in writing style between multiple posters are already quite obvious.
Yes, the OP is a paid Nike shill. He has already claimed he is a doper who uses L-cartenine daily. And he "always" stays within the limits. And it hasn't made him a super duper runner. Yes, he still takes it every single day.
hey sh.t for brains wrote:
your brain isn't functional wrote:
0/10, retard. Salazar used prohibited supplements.
No he didn't. L-carnitine is not prohibited.
If you are going to continue with this, quote the actual report where he was banned for prohibited supplements.
You sh!theaded retard. Salazar used it and doctored records. He USED MORE THAN the allowed limits.
Efren none wrote:
On a scale of doping ; 9/10
On a scale of obvious Nike weak defenders ; 0/10
hey sh!t head wrote:
hey sh.t for brains wrote:
No he didn't. L-carnitine is not prohibited.
If you are going to continue with this, quote the actual report where he was banned for prohibited supplements.
You sh!theaded retard. Salazar used it and doctored records. He USED MORE THAN the allowed limits.
What are you claiming the allowed limit of L-carnitine (or any other supplement involved) is? Please show where you find that either in the report or the WADA code.
L-carnitine is allowed in any amount you want.
Oh, please. If the brojos want to use my IP address and "out" my location you'd see I'm thousands of miles away from Beaverton.
I am not a Nike shill, don't have any skin in the game, never claimed to be a super duper runner or anything of the sort.
I will admit the focus here on l-carnitine as some sort of miracle substance to be hilarious. It's got about as much PED benefit as anything you might throw in a protein shake- BCAAs,, whey protein, whatever. It has no proven effect on hemocrit or any blood profile. I would say that it is far less effective than beta alanine or caffeine.
I will say it is hilarious to watch runners I know to be on synthetic thyroid to feign indignation over the Salazar-Brown connection. Especially the ones who visited and are current patients of Brown. To the masses that must not matter much because some are in the "good" category and the rest are apparently Sith Lords who cannot possibly have nearly 99.9% in common, pharmaceutically, with their athletic peers.
Jack Frost wrote:
I will say it is hilarious to watch runners I know to be on synthetic thyroid to feign indignation over the Salazar-Brown connection. Especially the ones who visited and are current patients of Brown. To the masses that must not matter much because some are in the "good" category and the rest are apparently Sith Lords who cannot possibly have nearly 99.9% in common, pharmaceutically, with their athletic peers.
Why do you think that is hilarious? Thyroid medications are not banned substances.