Hate all you want. The Gold is his..
Hate all you want. The Gold is his..
rojo wrote:
bpbungis wrote:
8 Clayton MURPHY USA 1:47.84
1st post-ban NOP athlete absolutely lays a goose egg. Coincidence?
Oh F off
blargh wrote:
U.S.A., a (100 to 800)m nation. wrote:
We need to make U.S.A. an 800m friendly country. We need to make U.S. high school cross country friendly to 400m athletes. High mileage XC is not a good fit for some 400m athletes. College 400m/800m athletes who were 400m specialists in high school are not a good fit for college XC currently. We need to shorten high school XC to 3000m and shorten college XC to 5000m. Wasn't there a XC discussion at Texas A&M that forced Brazier's hand and influenced his decision to turn pro as early as he did? I know Brazier did not race XC his freshman school year at Texas A&M. There are so many sub-55 400m 14 year olds in U.S. We have to bring them along properly. Some go on to be sub-47 by age 22. If we can make high school XC more friendly for these potential elite 800m athletes; if we can make college XC more friendly for these potential elite 800m athletes, there is no reason why U.S. cannot have two or three men in W.C. & Olympic finals as a normal occurrence.
Interesting thoughts. I like the idea of shortening XC, there needs to be more races anyways, and more competitive ones for that matter. There's a reason high school XC is more fun to follow than NCAA. But I think inherently the 800m is a bit of a unicorn event in terms of real talent. Those 14 year olds that run sub 55 so rarely have the capability to ever run an actually elite mile. It's such a specific mix of disparate abilities to be a world class sub 1:45 800m runner. You have to be able to go sub 45 and sub 4. Brazier is obviously a once in 20-30 years talent, even more rare than a 3:55 high school miler. And to your point, I think the US is already a 800m country. Symmonds, Murphy, Berian, Brazier have all taken global medals in the last 6 years.
U.S., historically, going back to 1896 produce the best 400m & 400mH athletes in the world. U.S. continues to do well in both events. Look at the 100m. U.S. is good, but others in western hemisphere are also good at 100m. At 200m, U.S. is good, but not as good as 400m & 400mH. The fall off from 400m to 800m is not logical. U.S. was good at 800m relative to the world, 1930s through 1950s.
I do not know how rare is Brazier. His achievements are rare. How do we know if his talent is rare? There are many U.S. men with similar 400m skill as Brazier. What is unique, Brazier's willingness to run high school XC and Brazier was willing to specialize as an 800m runner, with I am sure sub-55 400m skill at age of 14. We have to leave the 14 year olds to focus on sprints who race sub-52.5 400m at age 14, but if we were to encourage more 14 year olds to race XC and race 800m with (52.5 to 55) 400m performances at age 14, we have an opportunity to close the 800m gap with Kenya.
Note: As of January 1st, 1990, Kenya and U.S. both had roughly 6 sub-1:44 800m men. Kenya has had a great 30 year run. It's time for U.S. to maximize 800m potential.
There's been a lot of speculation about Brazier because of his NOP connection - which is a shame because his win at Doha is, on the face of it, a great achievement. But there are other runners who fly more under the radar that to me have a rather more interesting track record. Tuka, who is 29, went from 1.51 in 2013, to 1.46 in 2014 and then did a pr of 1.42.5 in 2015. That is a helluva progression - if it is natural - and even more dramatic than Brazier's improvements.
Will Braziers AR be taken away after the recent revelations? His marks for the previous couple of years also come into question.
Armstronglivs wrote:
There's been a lot of speculation about Brazier because of his NOP connection - which is a shame because his win at Doha is, on the face of it, a great achievement. But there are other runners who fly more under the radar that to me have a rather more interesting track record. Tuka, who is 29, went from 1.51 in 2013, to 1.46 in 2014 and then did a pr of 1.42.5 in 2015. That is a helluva progression - if it is natural - and even more dramatic than Brazier's improvements.
I'd like to know more regarding Tuka. Is it possible that Tuka smoked and drank too much when he was a 1:51 man? I knew college guys around 1:51 who partied too much. Maybe Tuka became disciplined?
Yeah, but consider Kenya's population is about 50M compared to the US's 330M. For a nation that small to produce that many good 800 runners means the talent pool is proportionately much greater than the US. Socioeconomic factors also factor in a lot too. Running is a way out of poverty in Kenya. In the US, not so much.
RRRR wrote:
rojo wrote:
Brazier is coached by Pete Julian.
Fastest splash page ever?
https://www.letsrun.com/splash-page/brazier-wins-800-gold-2019-doha-14234/I keep seeing people post this, as if it exonerates Brazier from any wrongdoing.
Rojo, can you clear up for those that are not in the know, how being coached by Pete Julian is different from being coached by Salazar when they are part of the same dirty NOP program?
Do Murphy and Brazier train in different locations, does Pete Julian have a significantly different philosophy when it comes to the "gray zone"? Does he have a different approach to training in general?
Knowing more of the details would be helpful in disassociating Brazier from the now tainted NOP/Salazar/Nike package and this dumpster truck fire of a story that is unfolding before us. It's an epic fall from grace for the entire program, and until we know more, it's pretty hard to get excited about the performances of any NOP athletes including Brazier's new AR.
Dude, did you even read the report? It basically clears all NOP athletes while implicating Salazars.
This is good news for NOP athletes, not bad. Bummer that they lost their coach, but good news that they were investigated for 4 years and there was no evidence of wrongdoing.
Did anyone get Brazier's splits?
Never mind found them.
I am kind of sad Amos wasn't in the race. It woulda been a titanic battle between him and Brazier. The winner probably woulda gone 1:41. Next year.
Brazier slowed down before the line because he was locking up after going for it from 500m. But you need to run a fast 800 to know this.
In those conditions, perhaps the best 800 race ever. I saw his early move, 500 from finish and I was afraid that he couldn't hang on. He slowed, but he didn't rig up. Wonderful to watch.
Hoppel had a fast finish, no well covered in live shot.
If he was Kenyan there would be pages of doping accusations but because it's American and got gold he should surely be the only clean NOP athlete. What a joke letsrun.
Good showing by the spanish kid Ben.
U.S.A. a (100m to 800m) nation. wrote:
Armstronglivs wrote:
There's been a lot of speculation about Brazier because of his NOP connection - which is a shame because his win at Doha is, on the face of it, a great achievement. But there are other runners who fly more under the radar that to me have a rather more interesting track record. Tuka, who is 29, went from 1.51 in 2013, to 1.46 in 2014 and then did a pr of 1.42.5 in 2015. That is a helluva progression - if it is natural - and even more dramatic than Brazier's improvements.
I'd like to know more regarding Tuka. Is it possible that Tuka smoked and drank too much when he was a 1:51 man? I knew college guys around 1:51 who partied too much. Maybe Tuka became disciplined?
9 seconds in two years! Yeah - I'm sure he got a lot more "disciplined". Like they all do.
cwarcarblue11 wrote:
RRRR wrote:
I keep seeing people post this, as if it exonerates Brazier from any wrongdoing.
Rojo, can you clear up for those that are not in the know, how being coached by Pete Julian is different from being coached by Salazar when they are part of the same dirty NOP program?
Do Murphy and Brazier train in different locations, does Pete Julian have a significantly different philosophy when it comes to the "gray zone"? Does he have a different approach to training in general?
Knowing more of the details would be helpful in disassociating Brazier from the now tainted NOP/Salazar/Nike package and this dumpster truck fire of a story that is unfolding before us. It's an epic fall from grace for the entire program, and until we know more, it's pretty hard to get excited about the performances of any NOP athletes including Brazier's new AR.
Dude, did you even read the report? It basically clears all NOP athletes while implicating Salazars.
This is good news for NOP athletes, not bad. Bummer that they lost their coach, but good news that they were investigated for 4 years and there was no evidence of wrongdoing.
So if he was "promoting and orchestrating doping" (in the words of USADA), who was he doing it for? Greenland?
Les wrote:
Did anyone get Brazier's splits?
200m - 23.84 (2nd)
300m - 36.30 (12.46) (2nd)
400m - 49.21 (12.91) (2nd)
500m - 1:02.35 (13.14) (2nd)
600m - 1:15.18 (12.83) (1st)
700m - 1:28.41 (13.23) (1st)
FINISH - 1:42.34 (13.93) (1st)
NOP member - hmm...
No one cares