Sifan MF Hassan just closed the 10k with a 3:59.09 1500!!! 4:17.15 last 1600!!

REAL. wrote:

Let’s not act like she was alone. She didn’t take the lead until 400m to go so all 3-4 women did the same thing.

Loved the white girls running so conservatively. Like a flock of seagulls.

Racist.

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

el guerroujjj wrote:

So this would be like El Guerrouj closing a 10,000 in 3:48?

I assume you mean 3:48 for the 1600 not 1500. Only 13 women have broken 4:00 in the 1500m this season.

9 seconds off the the doped up WR after already running 8500m. Nothing to see here, lets just keep burying our head in the sand when it comes to NOP.

Yea, it's suspicious. By default, anyone being #1 in the world, and especially a commanding #1 in the world is.

The performance itself, not so much. That mile close is fast, but not extraordinary. Remember she has run 65', or 5:00 pace for a half on the roads, that's like 4:50-4:55 pace on the track. They ran the first 8k sub threshold. That takes absolutely nothing out of your anaerobic capacity, so everything you have is left for the kick.

I mean seriously, just go try it. Go to the track and run at 5-10 seconds slower than road HM pace (even this is being generous, because there are extra savings sitting on the back of the pack that you wouldn't be getting solo), and then try to run within 10 seconds of your mile PR. It's....just not that insane. You're 100% fresh for the mile. Running HMP + 10s/mile makes you no more tired than running 9:00 pace for 5 miles does. That anaerobic cap is still entirely untouched.

It's impressive, but it's not otherworldly. People just forget that running a few miles sub threshold literally takes nothing out of you.

And again, Hassan had easier than even that as she had drafting the entire time, and someone to race against, key off, and push against.

Raw thing wrote:

John Wesley Harding wrote:

It was 14:43.80.

If you rely on IAAF tables, it’s like a man running the last 5k/3k/1500 in 13:04.1/7:38.7/3:32.3 in a 26:57 race. Do you guys think Bekele or Farah or anyone ever could do that? I’m skeptical.

I do think it’s more like a man closing in 13:10/7:42/3:34 in a 27:10 race—and that’s more conceivable.

Bekele and Geb DID close sub 13 in a sub 27 race in Paris. But no guy has ever come close to closing in 3:32. That is disgusting.

Probably two bad examples of yiure attempting to argue for a clean performance.

Jon Livingston wrote:

REAL. wrote:

Let’s not act like she was alone. She didn’t take the lead until 400m to go so all 3-4 women did the same thing.

Loved the white girls running so conservatively. Like a flock of seagulls.

Racist.

If poster had said: The women of European ancestory gave up all opportunities to earn medals when the three runners from Ethiopia, the three runners from Kenya plus Sifan Hassan began racing at sub 74 seconds per lap pace from 3200m or 3600m into 10000m race.

The facts do not change. I just cleaned it up for poster.

Jzs wrote:

John Wesley Harding wrote:

It was 14:43.80.

If you rely on IAAF tables, it’s like a man running the last 5k/3k/1500 in 13:04.1/7:38.7/3:32.3 in a 26:57 race. Do you guys think Bekele or Farah or anyone ever could do that? I’m skeptical.

I do think it’s more like a man closing in 13:10/7:42/3:34 in a 27:10 race—and that’s more conceivable.

Yes, I’m incorrect.. fat finger or brain fart 14:43.80

The fairest way to do this is relative to an athlete's threshold. Let's give peak Bekele 58:30' in HM. That's 4:28 pace, and Hassan went out at 15:30, which is the same as her HMP. So for Bekele we need to be out in 13:55. We can basically just extrapolate this all the way out to 8.5k, when it picked up. So Bekele goes through 8k in 22:15, then shuts it down with 3:33 for the final 1500.

Reasonable as it gets.

Just scale it to yourself and think about it. Take your best HMP. Go to the track and run that pace + 10s/mile (15 if you want to be honest and account for drafting advantage) and do that for 25', then switch to mile out. You'll easily get within 10s of your PR, and if you think about it you know you'll be feeling 100% fresh at that sort of effort.

Now, this isn't doping apology, because being #1 in any event by a large margin is inherently shady as hell. In other words Hassan closing this race in 3:59 is not shady. Hassan winning the 10000 by a dominant 50m absolutely is.

Kev2 wrote:

As I recall during Wang Junxia's 1993 WR, she closed in 14:26 (5000 m) and around 8:20 (3000 m), probably drug enhanced but that 5000 was under the WR at the time.

...probably drug enhanced? ?

John Wesley Harding wrote:

It was 14:43.80.

If you rely on IAAF tables, it’s like a man running the last 5k/3k/1500 in 13:04.1/7:38.7/3:32.3 in a 26:57 race. Do you guys think Bekele or Farah or anyone ever could do that? I’m skeptical.

I do think it’s more like a man closing in 13:10/7:42/3:34 in a 27:10 race—and that’s more conceivable.

At the 2003 Worldss, Bekele beat Geb by closing a 26:49 with a 12:57 final 5000 .

People forget how great those guys were.

In the 5000 Bekele lost to Kipchoge. Now I know why. I guess he was a little tired.

Now his last "mile" according to Larry Rawson was 4:04 and last 400 in 55 in the 10k. I don't think they could run the 3:32 but there have been some sick races before in the 10,000.

How about Ayana in 2016 when she ran 2917 with a 14:30 final 5k? Or 2017, when Ayana ran 30:16 (versus the 3017 tonight) in a race where after 8 laps, she was 30 seconds slower than where Hassan was tonight. Yes the temps were in the 60s but that's sick.

Video from 2003:

Ayana 2016

Ayana 2017

YMMV wrote:

She was passing a lot the final 1500; her actual 1500 was around 3:58-low. Unnnncredible!

I don't think you know what actual means

The Ayana/Hassan comparison is interesting as highlights the different ways you can be great over the 10k.

We will never know, but if Hassan had been in her current form and raced with Ayana in the London worlds 10k, Ayana would have beaten her convincingly from a long way out. A few days ago I sent a message to Letesenbet Gideys coach Haile Eyasu Gebray in which I suggested Gidey attempt to front run hard with at least 10 laps to run. As it transpired she only made her move with 4 laps remaining and Hassan covered this move relatively easily.

It matters little if Hassan can run the final 1500 of a 10k in 3.59 if she trails the leading runner by 300m with 3 & 3/4 laps to the finish

Kajdjxziiz wrote:

YMMV wrote:

She was passing a lot the final 1500; her actual 1500 was around 3:58-low. Unnnncredible!

I don't think you know what actual means

It is the time she actually ran while covering 1500m. Tough concept, I know.

Let's frame this race another way: Kipyegon and Koko could have waited at the 8500m mark and started fresh, running their season's best times...and Sifan would still have beat them.

YMMV wrote:

Kajdjxziiz wrote:

I don't think you know what actual means

It is the time she actually ran while covering 1500m. Tough concept, I know.

Let's frame this race another way: Kipyegon and Koko could have waited at the 8500m mark and started fresh, running their season's best times...and Sifan would still have beat them.

So what? Hassan has run 4 seconds faster than either of them! Here's a concept for you: Faster runners run better times than slower runners! Further, Hassan was moving at a very good clip when she hit the "starting" line. It always take 40 or 50 meters to get up to speed from a standing start. That's why you see some unbelievable 400 meter splits in relays.

What on earth leads you to believe any woman could amass a 300m lead on a healthy Hassan who was giving full effort?

Well, Faith Kipyegon is coming off pregnancy and only has a race on her belt. Her SB is more indicative of how much faster she can go. She’s run 3:56/4:16, but missed the time many PB when she had a baby in the 2018 non-championship year. Based on who she’s beaten and how in championship races, you’d have to figure 3:54-3:55 is doable for her. Hassan is strong as all hell. That first 8.5K took little to nothing out of her for that kick. Her range is more the crazy thing, but I do think Bekele could do very similar in his heyday if you rolled him into a last 1500 after an easy 8.5K. He could run 3:34 probably to close a race.

rojo wrote:

At the 2003 Worldss, Bekele beat Geb by closing a 26:49 with a 12:57 final 5000 .

People forget how great those guys were.

In the 5000 Bekele lost to Kipchoge. Now I know why. I guess he was a little tired.

Don't forget that Ma's Army great Wang closed in 14:16 at the WC 1993. Those girls were simply g-g-g-g-g-g-grrrrreeeeeeaaaaaaattttttttttttt!

coach d. wrote:

That's absurd.

Enough said

Sportisover wrote:

This sport is doomed. Once there is a significant possibility of cheating and not getting caught, as is the case now, every performance is suspect. And the most suspect performances are the best performances.

Sound reasoning. I say we retroactively ban Bob Beamon and David Moorcroft.

PED-Powered Performances wrote:

Kev2 wrote:

As I recall during Wang Junxia's 1993 WR, she closed in 14:26 (5000 m) and around 8:20 (3000 m), probably drug enhanced but that 5000 was under the WR at the time.

...probably drug enhanced? ?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2016/02/25/athletics-world-records-blow-as-wang-junxia-admits-being-part-of/

From the end of that article written 4 February 2016:

"The emergence of the Chinese letter comes less than a month after UK Athletics called for all world records to be frozen and replaced with a new set of record heralding the start of a “clean athletics era”."

A “clean athletics era” from 2016 on, lol.

Yeah, well, it is known that the first six finishers are all drugs cheats.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Her range is more the crazy thing, but I do think Bekele could do very similar in his heyday if you rolled him into a last 1500 after an easy 8.5K. He could run 3:34 probably to close a race.

Your statement is undermined by the fact that the fastest distance runner in history NEVER DID ANYTHING CLOSE TO A 3:34 (much less the 3:32 equivalent laid down by Hassan) to finish a 5000 or a 10000. No one can even come up with a sub-3:40 for a 10K finish by a man. It's pathetic how you underrate this achievement. You dolts who rationalize away this have no idea of the history of the sport, it's physiology and what has been done and what hasn't.