OP IS SAD.
The McEnroes
The Williams sisters
The Neville brothers and sister
The Murray brothers
These are just the tip of a very large iceberg.
OP IS SAD!!!!!!
OP IS SAD.
The McEnroes
The Williams sisters
The Neville brothers and sister
The Murray brothers
These are just the tip of a very large iceberg.
OP IS SAD!!!!!!
rekrunner wrote:
most of your arguments are hollow wrote:
The brothers are still national level or close talent without drugs. People generally overestimate the ability of doping to make donkeys in to race horses.
+1
Rekrunner are you on the record for stating that you approve of doping? , You seem to be saying yes by giving +1 to that. Anyone could see that it might be true, but it doesn't seem like they would just +1 with no clarification , unless they also approved of doping, maybe had some secret connections to it, and wanted to mentally minimize the PED's contribution.
Here we go! Europeans are putting up a massive fortress. The European posters are taking shots at OP. European posters are begging for us to believe Ingebrigtsens are clean. Covette is using is WHAT ABOUT THE AFRICANS logic to get us to look the other way. These Norway fellas, even according to dad are not naturally talented. I was looking at the racing results of a young Filbert Bayi today when he was a teenager. I guess if Bayi had done precise 10 x 1000m workouts averaging 2:50 or what ever Ingebrigtsen boys supposedly do, Bayi would have been a 3:25 1500m man at age 18.
On the contrary, I'm on record of saying the opposite. The statement I agreed with says "national level" "without drugs". How can "without drugs" possibly be construed as "approving doping"? I honestly don't comprehend this seeming double-speak logic that arguing "effect is overestimated" is an argument to "dope more" -- it is an argument to look elsewhere for something effective.
Redflagspotter wrote:
rekrunner wrote:
+1
Rekrunner are you on the record for stating that you approve of doping? , You seem to be saying yes by giving +1 to that. Anyone could see that it might be true, but it doesn't seem like they would just +1 with no clarification , unless they also approved of doping, maybe had some secret connections to it, and wanted to mentally minimize the PED's contribution.
You idiot face wrote:
OP IS SAD.
The McEnroes
The Williams sisters
The Neville brothers and sister
The Murray brothers
These are just the tip of a very large iceberg.
OP IS SAD!!!!!!
The OP's sad argument seems to be that of course 50 million Kenyans are sufficiently both genetically close to each other and distinct from the rest of humanity to account for their domination of distance running without doping, and yet three Norwegian brothers sharing near identical genes, all trained from a young age by their father in the exact same environment who is clearly a world beating coach, must be doping because it's impossible for all three to grow up world class.
Furthermore, it appears that one of them - Jakob - is even more talented than the other two (although he does have the advantages of having been mentored by them, learning from their mistakes, coach dad learning from his experiences etc). Just like Serena Williams is more talented than Venus (and the list goes on).
So there might be a little bit of a genetic spread in that family, only that they all clearly have world class genes, in the perfect environment, leading to two world class runners - Henrik and Filip - and one guy Jakob who might go down as the GOAT of all time.
OP has the IQ of a snail.
What is missing in the OPs arguments are the actual reasons why Ingebrigtsen's aren't clean, as promised by the subject line. It should be titled "Ingebrigtsen's success is not genetic; Here's why:".
morning in Europe ... wrote:
Here we go! Europeans are putting up a massive fortress. The European posters are taking shots at OP. European posters are begging for us to believe Ingebrigtsens are clean. Covette is using is WHAT ABOUT THE AFRICANS logic to get us to look the other way. These Norway fellas, even according to dad are not naturally talented. I was looking at the racing results of a young Filbert Bayi today when he was a teenager. I guess if Bayi had done precise 10 x 1000m workouts averaging 2:50 or what ever Ingebrigtsen boys supposedly do, Bayi would have been a 3:25 1500m man at age 18.
You sound like a racist. Them being white doesn't mean that they are "protected". You are playing victim and shifting your hate towards a currently innocent white competitor. Russians are also white, and most of them were banned from the Olympics, so your racist argument about them being white and getting special treatment and supposable "cover ups" will be called out.
Let me get this drilled into your head. Kenyans have been busted at extremely high rates these past years. It warrants fair suspicion of close teammates and former teammates of former dopers.
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/sonia-o-sullivan-kenyan-athletics-has-lost-its-aura-1.3046414
Tell me, couldn't Jakob run 15 mins for 5k at 13 or 14 or something. There are reports of him having a Vo2Max over 70 at 14/15.
Chilli Boy wrote:
Because you have personally blown every Ingebrigtsen, one and all, and, based on your decades-long experience in jism analysis, can truly testify that they are all PEDs abusers. In fact, the IOC hired you in 1988 to blow Ben Johnson and you were the first to declare him dirty. When Gatlin got banned, there you were, wiping your chin and giving the nod. Without you, the sport would have died long ago. Thanks, Bruv, for saving it once again. Don't be shy, take a bow.
Please stop with the pornographic posts. What the heck is wrong with you?
Coevett wrote:
The OP's sad argument seems to be that of course 50 million Kenyans are sufficiently both genetically close to each other and distinct from the rest of humanity to account for their domination of distance running without doping, and yet three Norwegian brothers sharing near identical genes, all trained from a young age by their father in the exact same environment who is clearly a world beating coach, must be doping because it's impossible for all three to grow up world class.
Furthermore, it appears that one of them - Jakob - is even more talented than the other two (although he does have the advantages of having been mentored by them, learning from their mistakes, coach dad learning from his experiences etc). Just like Serena Williams is more talented than Venus (and the list goes on).
So there might be a little bit of a genetic spread in that family, only that they all clearly have world class genes, in the perfect environment, leading to two world class runners - Henrik and Filip - and one guy Jakob who might go down as the GOAT of all time.
Henrik was on the FB hacked WADA ABP document as "suspicious/likely doping." There's also lot of Kenyans and Ukrainians on that list - so he shouldn't get a free pass from any suspicion (and just because he apparently seems to have avoided testing positive with the increased target testing doesn't mean he's clean).
https://www.letsrun.com/news/2017/07/say-aint-fancy-bears-hack-reveal-many-track-fields-biggest-stars-likely-doping-see-latest-fancy-bears-documents/Coevett wrote:
and one guy Jakob who might go down as the GOAT of all time.
OP has the IQ of a snail.
Speaking of snail IQs, can you please tell us why you wrote the “greatest of all time of all time”?
Passport Suspicious wrote:
Henrik was on the FB hacked WADA ABP document as "suspicious/likely doping." There's also lot of Kenyans and Ukrainians on that list - so he shouldn't get a free pass from any suspicion (and just because he apparently seems to have avoided testing positive with the increased target testing doesn't mean he's clean).
Yes, unlike Kiprop.
The fact that he did avoid testing positive with the increased target testing does suggest he's clean.
But really this is a different argument. I'm criticizing the OP's argument, which doesn't mention the Fancy Bears, just a racist list of reasons why they must be doping because they are white and therefore genetically inferior.
Nothing I've said here about Kenyans remotely compares to what the OP has said here, and yet none of the usual doping apologists like 'GBOhannohan', 'ex-runner', and numerous unregistered SJW cowards, are calling him out.
I once said that it's possible that no Kenyan has run under 3:33 clean, and that Nick Willis might be the clean world record holder, for which I've had a torrent of abuse including threats here for, and all I was really pointing out is that the proven scale of doping in Kenya (and to a large extent other African countries) does unfortunately mean that it's reasonable to put all Kenyan performances in question marks.
And I had the balls to say these things under my regular registered handle, unlike Tyronexxx the OP here.
Groupies!!!
Natural Talent wrote:
One strange Norwegian father that supposedly traits a different mentality then other Norwegians and has a covered medical background claims that he will make his sons the best with no prior experience related to distance running training. “If the African teenagers can do it why can’t my Norwegian ones”.
•There has never been a similar set of events surrounding such athletes before.
The likelihood that ONE the family had enough talent {THE BEST TALENT IN THE WORLD CONSIDERING RECENT EVENTS} and that TWO from experimental training on two other boys would reveal the perfect training for Jakob’s ‘genetics’ which is totally biased as they are brothers not identical twins.
•For not one but THREE BROTHERS to become of an elite level and get a set of favourable genes would indicate that there are other factors such as performance enhancers playing a part. For all three sons in a ROW to become elite is like hitting the lottery THREE TIMES OVER. For the family to achieve such feats naturally would indicate that they have such a unique genetic pool that distinguishes them from others (no doubt that parents around the world have tried all sorts of training for their kids to be the best) {so training is not unique factor no matter how you argue it’s been tried twice over}. The boys themselves have huge legs and ankles so that goes against economy traits among distance athletes.
•With Hitting the genetic lottery FOUR TIMES OVER (parents,kid..,1,2,3) being impractical and impossible what other factors could play part?
•The family have a TV show to try and show the world they are clean with all the hard and structured routine they follow.
Which is just great acting (how harsh the father make himself out to be) and obviously comes with the job of an elite athlete anyhow. A show is the perfect set to fool the public and try and cover up other loose ends. If they were clean then why try so much to indicate they are?
•Ability to beat athletes that are genetically superior to themselves.
This has been seen then and again.
One white family on top of the western distance scene. How amazing, they just are doing everything better than everyone else.
•Coaching prowess creates arguably just as good if not better results than Salazar.
FROM A BACKGROUND WITHOUT EXPERIENCE HAHA!
•They are white. Thus, protected as unfortunately like society in the 18 hundreds still means more power and ability to corrupt and cover, whilst adding bullshit.
This family has hit the lottery AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. They also know how to train better then ANYONE ELSE IN THE WHOLE WORLD. (Off of no training background; how about that haha)
But don’t be fooled of course they are clean and the Africans have and always have been dirty. No need to be suspicious, these Norwegians have the talent and the talentless East Africans have the drugs.
Doesn't the Dad own a shipping company too?
Seems really really really difficult to put your entire family in the spotlight like he does and then go out and find a place(s) to buy EPO for years and years. How the hell would you source it, discretely set up orders, pay, and get it into your house/training facilities?
It'd be 3 people, some who are kids, secretly injecting themselves and taking tests after races etc. The entire house of cards would crash down for everyone, not just one athlete.
seems insanely risky.
There's precedent for very fast white guys.
Do you think Coe was doping?
The closing of the American Mind. Well, just a title of a very good american book.
You do reason with a kind of "probability analysis". Not a very good one.
Let us start with the last sarcasm. 1) The Ingebrigtsens are clean and the africans are dirty. As far as I know they have never made the claim that the Africans has always been dirty. In fact, I myself wrote a very positive article in Norways biggest newspaper about how little we appriciate the young kenyans, amongst them Edward Zakayo, the brilliant 17 year old. 13.03 this year. 2) They don't themself claim that they have the best talent. But it is well known that they have extremely high VO2max, all of them. It has been tested in an open society. But you sure have the details.
Sure, they are white. But ability to "protect and cover" in Norway. Are you out of your mind? Do you know anything at all about Norway? A country with the most rigorous regime of doping control. This kind of trupianism is not nice.
Gjert Ingebrigtsen has a "covered medical bacground"? Bring it on. This is News. Just give it to me and I will get it published. This is conspiracy theory.
Three sons in a row??? They are six Brothers. And a sister. All from a very humble background.
That three brothers has become elite runners"That is right. In your mind that "would indicate" etc. Don't you have courses in logic at american colleges?". It does not indicate anything at all. Whether you like it or not. You must back it up with empirical evidens. Though you try. Measured their ancles and legs. Or just looked at them on TV. The kenyans for sure, but what about the maroccans and algerians. Makhlofi is making a comeback now. 1.76 and 70 kilos. Aha, he is doing drugs. But you are not???
"The Family has a TV-show to try to show that they are clean". It is a TV-show. That is the only correct statement. But nothing more. It ispublised by Norwegian Broadcasting (NRK). How are you able to reason like this? Aha, a gigantic coverup. The really big conspiracy. And we all are fooled, but not you, because you know better.
There must be a doping lab somewhere in Sandnes.? And they bring the doping equipment all over the world. What a coverup, but probably only in your mind. My probality hypotheses. But you never know,you know.After the World Championships in Doha, they are going to Africa to Train with the Manangoi brothers, two of them in a row who has won in genetical lottery?, and Cheruiyot. You can make headlines and win a prize in investigating journalism. Do it. Be a man.
I discussed the trainingmethods with Arne Kvalheim, one of the Kvalheim brothers who ran very good 1500s and 5000s in the sixties and seventies. You can't just make the claim that the system and the disiplin don't work. You just reason. No facts. No empirical evidence. Send an article to a sportsmagazine. Do you think they will print it? Or may be they are part of a worldwide coverup?
seems like a lot of trouble wrote:
Natural Talent wrote:
One strange Norwegian father that supposedly traits a different mentality then other Norwegians and has a covered medical background claims that he will make his sons the best with no prior experience related to distance running training. “If the African teenagers can do it why can’t my Norwegian ones”.
•There has never been a similar set of events surrounding such athletes before.
The likelihood that ONE the family had enough talent {THE BEST TALENT IN THE WORLD CONSIDERING RECENT EVENTS} and that TWO from experimental training on two other boys would reveal the perfect training for Jakob’s ‘genetics’ which is totally biased as they are brothers not identical twins.
•For not one but THREE BROTHERS to become of an elite level and get a set of favourable genes would indicate that there are other factors such as performance enhancers playing a part. For all three sons in a ROW to become elite is like hitting the lottery THREE TIMES OVER. For the family to achieve such feats naturally would indicate that they have such a unique genetic pool that distinguishes them from others (no doubt that parents around the world have tried all sorts of training for their kids to be the best) {so training is not unique factor no matter how you argue it’s been tried twice over}. The boys themselves have huge legs and ankles so that goes against economy traits among distance athletes.
•With Hitting the genetic lottery FOUR TIMES OVER (parents,kid..,1,2,3) being impractical and impossible what other factors could play part?
•The family have a TV show to try and show the world they are clean with all the hard and structured routine they follow.
Which is just great acting (how harsh the father make himself out to be) and obviously comes with the job of an elite athlete anyhow. A show is the perfect set to fool the public and try and cover up other loose ends. If they were clean then why try so much to indicate they are?
•Ability to beat athletes that are genetically superior to themselves.
This has been seen then and again.
One white family on top of the western distance scene. How amazing, they just are doing everything better than everyone else.
•Coaching prowess creates arguably just as good if not better results than Salazar.
FROM A BACKGROUND WITHOUT EXPERIENCE HAHA!
•They are white. Thus, protected as unfortunately like society in the 18 hundreds still means more power and ability to corrupt and cover, whilst adding bullshit.
This family has hit the lottery AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN. They also know how to train better then ANYONE ELSE IN THE WHOLE WORLD. (Off of no training background; how about that haha)
But don’t be fooled of course they are clean and the Africans have and always have been dirty. No need to be suspicious, these Norwegians have the talent and the talentless East Africans have the drugs.
Doesn't the Dad own a shipping company too?
Seems really really really difficult to put your entire family in the spotlight like he does and then go out and find a place(s) to buy EPO for years and years. How the hell would you source it, discretely set up orders, pay, and get it into your house/training facilities?
It'd be 3 people, some who are kids, secretly injecting themselves and taking tests after races etc. The entire house of cards would crash down for everyone, not just one athlete.
seems insanely risky.
There's precedent for very fast white guys.
Do you think Coe was doping?
How did Peyton Manning obtain P.E.D.'s? At one of Manning's homes, he had P.E.D.'s shipped to him in his wife's name. These Ing boys are not bigger than peak Peyton Manning.
If you're trying to make a white genetics argument tying Ing boys in with Coe, it is a real stretch to label Sebastian Coe white. It is interesting: People of color whom are educated and also advocate conservative principals are often considered white. If Coe had been a Labour politician, advocating for rights of Indian immigrants, would so many posters on letsrun still consider Coe white?
See Peyton Manning wrote:
It is interesting: People of color whom are educated and also advocate conservative principals are often considered white. If Coe had been a Labour politician, advocating for rights of Indian immigrants, would so many posters on letsrun still consider Coe white?
Maybe you should worry about how to use basic English pronouns before talking about “educated.”
grammar and spelling wrote:
See Peyton Manning wrote:
It is interesting: People of color whom are educated and also advocate conservative principals are often considered white. If Coe had been a Labour politician, advocating for rights of Indian immigrants, would so many posters on letsrun still consider Coe white?
Maybe you should worry about how to use basic English pronouns before talking about “educated.”
I am multi-tasking.
It took you 30 minutes to review a GRAMMAR book.
I appreciate that you did not disagree with the main ideas of my post.
It's just an obsessive athlete-coach dad who hit the jackpot.
There are millions of dads a year who pressure their kids to be elite athletes and fail b/c of genetics or other factors.
Surely is plausible one of them gets it right/lucky.
The Polgars are similar examples in chess.
Coevett wrote:
Because Morocco had a GDR type system that was near entirely geared to producing 1500/5000m medalists. No other country in the history of athletics has had that. And they did it slap, bang in the the middle of the EPO era.
Spain has had problems with doping, but that's relative to other European countries. Probably nowhere near the doping culture of African countries, which is likely why North African immigrants got to the top even there (as well as France, Belgium..). Spain is also subject to far more stringent testing than Africa. And even if a few Spanish distance runners were on full throttle EPO for a few years back in the day, they still wouldn't have been able to roid as much.
Russia doped to get medals. Why would they even bother with the 5000m when all of Africa was doping themselves silly. Most of the Russian population can barely leave their door for half the year because of the weather. Compare to GB or New Zealand or Kenya where you can train year round.
You actually think China is an example of doping not working when we saw a country with zero history or apparent talent in distance running suddenly dominate the women's distances, with most of the records still standing, when one small group of female runners doped to the max?
I wasn't aware that Sweden was a hot house of doping? How many runners in Sweden have been busted as compared to Kenya or Morocco?
rekrunner wrote:
That's part of what undermines credibilty -- why Morocco, and not athletes from other countries known for doping, like Spain or Russia or China or Sweden.
In the interest of fact, something which lacks on this website, please provide evidence for the above claims?
I'd like to see you out your degree in 'logic' into use and post some information which you haven't made up.
I'll start with countering your 'Spaniards aren't as bad dopers because they are European' BS
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operaci%C3%B3n_Puerto_doping_caseWikipedia lists 43 Moroccan individuals who have been found guilty in doping cases. Russia have 105. USA have 95.
Thank you