It's pretty easy to think that something in Runner's World in those years must have been written by Joe.
It's pretty easy to think that something in Runner's World in those years must have been written by Joe.
"We talkin' about a 13:19 5K????" - Allen Iverson
MamothRunner wrote:
Hi all,
Via via I came to an account of a Belgian coach who is coaching most of the Belgian runners.
2 of them finished 4-5th on the 5K at Payton Jordan this year. Isaac Kimeli also ran against Jäger last year and was beaten in a sprintfinish.
His coach Tim Moriau posted the program of 1 of his guys that ran 13.19 at Stanford, averaging only 55miles a week!!
You can find the program on his instagram: moriautim
Let me think what you guys think about it, it seems to good to be true...
13:19.
Please remember that this is an American website and that we know the difference between a period and a colon.
tomato de la tron wrote:
Genuinely interested - where are you getting the paces from? What level of runner would this plan be for?
Hmmm?? I wonder.....Who is hiding behind this alias?
My answer to "tomato de la tron" became deleted. I wonder why.....?
My answer was about " Who asks? If you are a runner with WR potential or a coach (Salazar? ) coaching runners with this potential you can contact me and we will have an interesting discussion."
Why delete that" not offending" kind of answer? Did i nail the person behind the alias???
Hmmmm.....I wonder.
I'll Buy That For A Franc wrote:
I call BS. Elite athletes and coaches in all sports do a lot of dissembling when "releasing" training programs, and this is no exception. There's probably an additional 40-50 miles a week of mileage that conveniently isn't mentioned.
Lydiard claimed his athletes ran 100 miles per week. However he did not count the morning runs.
So, sometimes they did them and sometimes they didn't.
My athletes never ran more than 40 mpw. However Saturdays and Sundays are not usually included in that total.
Plus you have the cheaters and sandbaggers who say they ran more or less than they actually did.
Go to many road races and I bet you can find a 30 minute 10K runner say he ran only 20 mpw.
Do not believe the man who says he can do 100 consecutive pushups, pullups, or bench 290 at a 145 pound bodyweight
either.
Maybe re-spell and register your handle since you spelled "Mammoth" wrong?
It was an interesting topic so far. A lot of you guys are true believers of high mileage, some understand it is not about the more the better but about efficiency and taking your time to become worldclass.
In the ideal story you have a runner with high VO2max and high VLaMax and good bodycomposition that is able to handle high mileage. Than I agree that high mileage is needed to achieve his/her potential, but still you have to built it up day by day and every athlete (even with the same capacities) need a different approach.
The first question you have to ask yourself as a coach do I have to train 100miles at age 18 already to become world class? I don't think so, at first you have to work at the basics and improve speed, endurance, strength. I see many athletes that are talented but don't take their time and got injured, overtrained or mentally burned- out.
In my approach I differ mileage/intensity based on my runners capabilities on that particular time.
So runners with low VO2Max/VLAmax will train less than runners with higher capacities. Runners with more FT fibers will train different than ST fiber athletes,...
The 13.19 guy is a huge talent but in is history with his old coach he got a lot of injuries so he has no solid background of running. Many coaches would give him much more mileage than I am doing but the chance that they would break him is real. Developing VO2max ( or cardiovascular system in general) takes time, same for improving an athletes impact he can cope without getting injured.
I believe a steady approach without injuries (and not looking for the limits) is the only correct approach in the long term.
Which career would you chose:
At your best at age 28 without injuries and a steady career
At your best at age 21 with injuries and the treat to end your career at age 28 due to overtraining...
And a simple calculation to end my opinion:
Casus 1: Athlete trains 85 miles a week on average but is injured 4 weeks each year and takes a restperiod of 2x3 weeks a year(common story...): After 10 years of training he/she has ran: 35700 miles
Casus 2: Athlete trains 60 miles a week on average (including restperiod), has no injuries and takes no real restperiod (runs around 25 miles in restweek 2x2weeks a year): After 10 years of training he/she ran: 33800 miles
Most will say Aha you see even with injuries they will have trained more, true story BUT you also have to calculate to loss in fitness and I am pretty sure than it is a different story when it comes down to performance and reaching your true potential...
Below Robin his history:
OlympicRunningTeamCoach wrote:
It was an interesting topic so far. A lot of you guys are true believers of high mileage, some understand it is not about the more the better but about efficiency and taking your time to become worldclass.
In the ideal story you have a runner with high VO2max and high VLaMax and good bodycomposition that is able to handle high mileage. Than I agree that high mileage is needed to achieve his/her potential, but still you have to built it up day by day and every athlete (even with the same capacities) need a different approach.
The first question you have to ask yourself as a coach do I have to train 100miles at age 18 already to become world class? I don't think so, at first you have to work at the basics and improve speed, endurance, strength. I see many athletes that are talented but don't take their time and got injured, overtrained or mentally burned- out.
In my approach I differ mileage/intensity based on my runners capabilities on that particular time.
So runners with low VO2Max/VLAmax will train less than runners with higher capacities. Runners with more FT fibers will train different than ST fiber athletes,...
The 13.19 guy is a huge talent but in is history with his old coach he got a lot of injuries so he has no solid background of running. Many coaches would give him much more mileage than I am doing but the chance that they would break him is real. Developing VO2max ( or cardiovascular system in general) takes time, same for improving an athletes impact he can cope without getting injured.
I believe a steady approach without injuries (and not looking for the limits) is the only correct approach in the long term.
Which career would you chose:
At your best at age 28 without injuries and a steady career
At your best at age 21 with injuries and the treat to end your career at age 28 due to overtraining...
And a simple calculation to end my opinion:
Casus 1: Athlete trains 85 miles a week on average but is injured 4 weeks each year and takes a restperiod of 2x3 weeks a year(common story...): After 10 years of training he/she has ran: 35700 miles
Casus 2: Athlete trains 60 miles a week on average (including restperiod), has no injuries and takes no real restperiod (runs around 25 miles in restweek 2x2weeks a year): After 10 years of training he/she ran: 33800 miles
Most will say Aha you see even with injuries they will have trained more, true story BUT you also have to calculate to loss in fitness and I am pretty sure than it is a different story when it comes down to performance and reaching your true potential...
Below Robin his history:
https://www.iaaf.org/athletes/belgium/robin-hendrix-400809
So very interesting to read your insights and considerations! Thanks ! I agree with the most you write down here....there is just one thing I disagree , and that is your opinion that a runner with high VO2 max and high VLa max (and good body composition) needs higher mileage to reach optimum potential. I have seen in my coaching that it`s just a matter of exact best individual paces. If the runner is not so strong at the aerobic part(compared to anaerobic) I just calibrate the pace according to that . A part of the art of coaching. To "read" your athlete.
tomato de la tron wrote:
Genuinely interested - where are you getting the paces from? What level of runner would this plan be for?
You asked this after you saw my example plan and in the post I told it was a basic plan for a runner to beat all world records from 800m to marathon. Then I asked who you are and my post was deleated. Very strange.....
And, a faster PR 11 years later training.
At least I increase my Long run, and kept it going throughout the season
Week of:
May 15 43.5 3:59 mile and 3:39 1500m, 42 min longest run
May 22 13.5 21 mins longest run - sick
May 29 51
June 5 63 inc 9 400’s at :63
June 12 39
June 19 40.5 80:19 long run
June 26 72 inc. 2x800 in 1:55.29 and 1:57.14
July 3 56 inc. 76:36 11 mile run
July 10 54.5
July 17 64 3:41.08 1500m (poor race) and also inc. 70:03 long run
July 24 58.5 3:36.80 1st place 1500m and 80 m’s long run w/Gary Staines and Mark Rowland next day
July 31 45 inc. 7:39.65 3000m race, and 85:07 13.0 mile long run
Aug 7 61.5 inc. 4x1200 in 3:09 w/400 jog in 87 degrees
Aug 14 31.5 Longest run 28:32, w/Bob Kennedy, Mar Roland, Paul Donavan
Aug 21 60 inc 3:38.7 and 7:49.61 3000m races and 75 min long run
Aug 28 4 second PR 5000
13:15