He's a remarkable track runner. He's not a remarkable marathon runner. He isn't the first runner with those traits and he won't be the last. To say that any 2:04 guy would've been better than him on the track is laughable.
He's a remarkable track runner. He's not a remarkable marathon runner. He isn't the first runner with those traits and he won't be the last. To say that any 2:04 guy would've been better than him on the track is laughable.
I like Rupp better than Mo and I ain't Rupp fan either!
facts and reason wrote:
He didn't have to face Bekele or Guerrouj in their primes.
Warriors will sweep the Rockets wrote:
Guerrouj ruled the late 90s/early 00s, Bekele ruled the mid to late 00s, and Farah took over in 11 and held it til 17. So what you are saying is that for Mo to be legitimized, he needed to be in his prime for nearly 20 years?
facts and reason wrote:
I didn't say Mohammed Farah needed to time travel in a machine.
"facts and reason" - Mo needed to beat Bekele and Guerrouj both in their primes
Warriors and Rockets - So Mo needed to be in his prime during that 10 year period plus the 10 year period that Mo was actually in his prime?
"facts and reason" - I didn't say that
Yeah you kinda did....
Is michael jordan not good because he didn't face wilt chamberlain and bill russell in their primes? What about (insert any athlete and list off people not in that decade)??
Total farce wrote:
Gggggg wrote:
Obviously the man can’t produce a threatening time (sub 2:04) that will challenge the top runners in the world, not to mention him being two levels below Kipchoge. All his track career is nothing but taking an opportunity that the big guns had moved to the road. He never produced challenging times on the track. Now that he is forced to run fast, he can’t handle it. He can go to Boston next year. If he coulda he woulda
+1
Go to the front and slow people down to use his sudden kick that developed around 2011 (at age 28).
This. +1. Sudden kick that developed around 2011. So true.
You realize wrote:
Pre pre pre pre wrote:
Pre is more overrated
Pre’s legend is based on the fact that he never got the opportunity to run in his prime but he completely dominated the college ranks and his age group. The legend is about what could have been not his 4th place finish.
He died at 24 years old.
- Rudisha when he set the 800m wr: 23 years old
- Ngeny when he set the 1000m wr: 21
- El gerrouj when he set the 1500 wr: 23 (24y.o. for mile wr, 25 y.o. for 2000m wr)
- Saif Shaheen when he set the steeple wr: 23
- Komen 3000m wr: 22
- Bekele 5000m wr: 22
- Bekele 10,000m wr: 23
It's possible he hadn't reached his prime yet, there are obviously obviously examples of people reaching their peak later in life, such as kipchoge breaking the marathon wr at 26 years old.
But Pre should have been pretty close to his peak at 24, he wasnt likely to make any major improvements unless something was holding him back, say poor coaching, but that seems unlikely. He probably would have only improved by a bit more.
He isnt rated highly because he died young, he is rated highly because he had a rebellious image while running close to the world's best.
LRC commentary wrote:
facts and reason wrote:
He didn't have to face Bekele or Guerrouj in their primes.
Warriors will sweep the Rockets wrote:
Guerrouj ruled the late 90s/early 00s, Bekele ruled the mid to late 00s, and Farah took over in 11 and held it til 17. So what you are saying is that for Mo to be legitimized, he needed to be in his prime for nearly 20 years?
facts and reason wrote:
I didn't say Mohammed Farah needed to time travel in a machine.
"facts and reason" - Mo needed to beat Bekele and Guerrouj both in their primes
Warriors and Rockets - So Mo needed to be in his prime during that 10 year period plus the 10 year period that Mo was actually in his prime?
"facts and reason" - I didn't say that
Yeah you kinda did....
Is michael jordan not good because he didn't face wilt chamberlain and bill russell in their primes? What about (insert any athlete and list off people not in that decade)??
Mo and KB are the same age. They competed in the same era.
I think the roads wear on him wrote:
I think the longer distance road races wear on him. Farah has said so himself - the longer road races take a lot our of him - and indeed - by appearances - that seems to be the case (he was hurting with his recent 2:05). He is not the most efficient of top level runners, so perhaps this is not a surprise.
His range is phenomenal, and so are his track accomplishments. And his marathon acumen is excellent, and still likely in the top 10 in the world. He is not the best, however, especially as the best right now is beyond compare of anyone in history.
Although very subjective and a large opinion that may not be mine to make, I have always thought the 2003 WC 5000m which Kipchoge won is the best 5000m race of all time. I wonder how Farah in his prime would have done in that race. My guess is that the top three in that race all would have defeated him, because, well, at the time they were sublimely good. But none of this should detract from Farah's overall record - no matter what - getting through the heats and stress in the Olympics to win two golds in two successive Games is very, very impressive.
Farah did not face heats in either of his 10000 meter Olympic wins, iirc.
Viren faced heats for all his Gold Medal wins.
This is Melbourne Commonwealth Games (2006) Men's 5000m final.
Mohammed Farah was 23.
sky wrote:
I think the roads wear on him wrote:
...no matter what - getting through the heats and stress in the Olympics to win two golds in two successive Games is very, very impressive.
Farah did not face heats in either of his 10000 meter Olympic wins, iirc.
Viren faced heats for all his Gold Medal wins.
Which makes falling down and getting back up and winning even more incredible, much less setting a world record in the process!
Most people that raced that long ago aren’t comparable; training and technology has advanced significantly even in track
You can have a debate on how good historically, that's fine. But what makes him special to me is that he's not afraid to put himself out there and compete. Look at London Marathon this year. He is on home turf with millions of fans watching live and in person. He tells the press that "yes, I'm one of the favorites and I think I have a chance to win". The race didn't work out for him but he offers no hollow excuses just that he couldn't follow the pace.
Go Mo!
not even top 15 wrote:
Mondo Hondo wrote:
I'm not sure it's even possible to "overrate" 4 Olympic Golds and
3:28
12:53
25:46
2:05:11
What words, ideas or sentiments could be used to "overrate" that?
Runners always seemed more reasonable and objective people to me than the average schmuck. This website is a strange anomaly in that perception.
I don't know, Greatest of All Time maybe? Seems to be a popular one around here.
I don't think he was the Greatest of All Time, but given his accomplishments, I could support such a statement. I wouldn't be "overrating" him if I said that about him. At least not as I understand the term "overrated."
timesdontlie wrote:
Mondo Hondo wrote:
I'm not sure it's even possible to "overrate" 4 Olympic Golds and
3:28
12:53
25:46
2:05:11
What words, ideas or sentiments could be used to "overrate" that?
Runners always seemed more reasonable and objective people to me than the average schmuck. This website is a strange anomaly in that perception.
1st. that 25:46 is very cute.
2nd. Does everyone need to spell it out for you? He is consistently proclaimed as Sir Mo greatest of all time GOAT king of running. Non-stop, all the time. Yet, he has no World Record, and he even has his Euro records taken away by -gasp- an actual European! It's not like he is even close to any world record to warrant a discussion...he's a country mile away form them. He isn't close to anything like even Lasse Viren, who not only won 4 Olympic golds but also held world records. Yet, how much hype is or was there about Viren??
!st, the 25:46 was obviously a typo. I tried to fix it, but couldn't find where to edit a post. I wasn't trying to be cute with a fact that everyone could easily look up, to the extent it's not known from memory.
2nd. Yes, I suppose it does need to be spelled out for me. You tried and failed. Maybe someone else can, without raising something as silly as asking me to consider how much hype Lasse Viren gets, which, for many reasons, would seem to be irrelevant to whether Farah is overrated.
Mondo Hondo wrote:
not even top 15 wrote:
I don't know, Greatest of All Time maybe? Seems to be a popular one around here.
I don't think he was the Greatest of All Time, but given his accomplishments, I could support such a statement. I wouldn't be "overrating" him if I said that about him. At least not as I understand the term "overrated."
I'd genuinely like to see you try.
Gggggg wrote:
Obviously the man can’t produce a threatening time (sub 2:04) that will challenge the top runners in the world, not to mention him being two levels below Kipchoge. All his track career is nothing but taking an opportunity that the big guns had moved to the road. He never produced challenging times on the track. Now that he is forced to run fast, he can’t handle it. He can go to Boston next year. If he coulda he woulda
Your whole post is predicated on the fact that Farah is rated very highly in the first place. I don't really see that. Everyone puts him well below the level of people like Haile, Bekele, El G, Kipchoge, etc. Farah is probably place at or just below the level of guys like Tergat or Sihine.
Seems about right. You had a guy that won everything on the track for 5 or 6 years. That's solid. Never ran fast enough to threaten Haile/Bekele level times, so obviously not in the conversation for GOAT....and nobody really puts him at that Tier. 3:28 is meaningful though.
Guy should have gone for it on the track though a few times. His resume and stats would be better reflected if he was double, double Olympic champ and 3:28/12:4x/26:30 guy. That would, in everyone's mind I suspect, place him where he belongs...one of the better runners of all time, but one clear notch behind the all time greats.
I don't, to this day, understand why he didn't. Yes, he knew he couldn't touch the WRs and hinted as much; but his overall legacy absolutely would have been enhances with something between 12:40-12:45 and something around 26:30, which he definitely had in him to do. You don't win EVERY single race, many of them with a vicious kick in the 12:5x range, without being 10+ seconds faster over the distance. If you're a 12:50 guy, and you have a bad day, you're a 12:55 guy or a 13:00 guy on that day. A 13:00 guy does not have a 53 or 54 last lap in a sub 13 race. Even on his bad days, Farah has something in the tank.
Shoulda, coulda, woulda. But really, he shoulda. I think he hurt his final product not doing so.
here we go wrote:
Mondo Hondo wrote:
I don't think he was the Greatest of All Time, but given his accomplishments, I could support such a statement. I wouldn't be "overrating" him if I said that about him. At least not as I understand the term "overrated."
I'd genuinely like to see you try.
Okay, here's a try. He has 4 distance golds in the Olympics (plus a bunch of World Championships), and he has incredible range - from 3:28 in the 1500 to 2:05 in the marathon. He never seems to dodge anyone, and is fearless in races. He's clutch. Savy "clutch"? He's clutch.
Bullet_Proof wrote:
Total farce wrote:
+1
Go to the front and slow people down to use his sudden kick that developed around 2011 (at age 28).
This. +1. Sudden kick that developed around 2011. So true.
The more accurate statement is sudden fitness that developed around 2011. I would bet, very strongly, that Mo always had a savage kick. I remember there was that 14:00 or 14:30 race he ran like 2013-2016ish time frame, and closed in 50. I bet Mo Farah of 2008 could have done the same.
His kick appeared when he went from not being in even 13 flat shape to being in likely 12:45 shape. Now he is not at his limited and could put that speed and massive FRC tank to use.
It’s all about the thon wrote:
Because of the money and popularity of thoning the last decade the 1500-10k has lost competitiveness. A perfect example is Rupp able to win a silver.
When guys like mo and Rupp race the best runners in the world they are no where to be found.
rupp has an olympic bronze in the marathon
so your argument implodes
Gggggg wrote:
Obviously the man can’t produce a threatening time (sub 2:04) that will challenge the top runners in the world, not to mention him being two levels below Kipchoge. All his track career is nothing but taking an opportunity that the big guns had moved to the road. He never produced challenging times on the track. Now that he is forced to run fast, he can’t handle it. He can go to Boston next year. If he coulda he woulda
Agree, everyone is saying Mo imploded in London, but it seems like he just ran to his potential. Despite all of his medals he was never that fast on the track.
Here are Mo’s pbs with event, time, and place on the all-time list.
1500 – 3:28.81 (11th)
3000 – 7:32.62 (46th)
5000 – 12:53.11 (34th)
10000 – 26:46.47 (15th)
Marathon – 2:05.11 (53rd)
The 1500 was clearly his best event and helps explain why he was so successful at out-kicking his competitors over the last 400. But how can someone who is not even in the top 10 at any distance be even in consideration for goat. Imagine if Bolt had still won all of his medals but none of his times were close to WRs. Would anyone still consider him the goat?
Or, think of it this way: Take away Mo’s medals and he would just be another good international runner based on his times. Take away Bekele’s medals and he is still the fastest ever on the track.