Boston Separates Elite Men's Start from Wave 1 Corral 1 by two minutes

What did it mean to be elite in year's past for the men?

What was the different of being an "elite"man in 2018 vs a non-elite with a 2:25 seed time?

This rule is so stupid. So now they're going to only have 30 people go off when the gun goes off. Boston has long been the "every person's" pro race. Now there are tiers. Elites and non-elites. Disappointing and I don't see the problem they are trying to solve. There was a total fluke occurrence last year in Boston.

I personally think everyone in Wave 1 should start at same time. If they want to have a separate elite women's start great. If you apply for field and don't get in and have a time to win prize money then give it to you.

But for the men, even if you want to separate people by 2 minutes (I still don't see ANY reason for this) why wouldn't Boston let everyone who thinks they are going to run say sub 2:30 start at once?

Really weird. Maybe we can reach out to their PR people

Last year some Japanese runner went running way out ahead of the elite field. Clearly a showboat for the cameras. I heard he also ran a race in a panda suit. Must have crashed and burned a few miles down the road. Definitely should have been kept back 2 minutes from the elites.

wejo wrote:

What did it mean to be elite in year's past for the men?

What was the different of being an "elite"man in 2018 vs a non-elite with a 2:25 seed time?

This rule is so stupid. So now they're going to only have 30 people go off when the gun goes off. Boston has long been the "every person's" pro race. Now there are tiers. Elites and non-elites. Disappointing and I don't see the problem they are trying to solve. There was a total fluke occurrence last year in Boston.

Just speaking from my personal experiences...

I always emailed the elite coordinator anytime between November-early January asking to be in the field and would get a non-complimentary waiver code so that I could sign up. Then based on my seed time I either would be in the elite field or corral 1

The two years I got in the elite field (2012, 2018), I got an elite bib, access to the Korean church near the start line (so our own gear check there and they have their own bathrooms/food/light PT available). We went to the starting line with ~ 10 mins to go instead of waiting out in the elements and we started approximately 30-40 meters ahead of corral 1. I know people with better seeds got complimentary entry/fluid stations. In 2012 I had a 2:24:19 seed time and in 2018 I had a 2:22:27 seed time.

The two years I was in corral 1 (with a 2:27:15 seed time in 2013 after getting 19th the year before and 2:25:23 in 2017). I went to athlete's village/a friends place near the starting line then headed over ~30 minutes before the race and got at the front of corral 1 fairly easily. There was a volunteer wall in front of us ~ 50 meters from the starting line that got out of the way as they raised the gun so we were probably ~30-40 meters away by the time the gun went off (I want to say in 2013 it took me 4 seconds and in 2017 it took me 5 seconds to get to the starting line). 2018 was no different, so the 2:25 non-elite runner would have had to hang out in Athlete's village / corral 1 until the race began and started a couple seconds behind the elite field. Obviously Matt Herzig's 12th place finish last year was based on his gun time and not net time, but the couple seconds is not anywhere near as impactful as the new 2 minute break between elite field and corral 1.

No borders!!! Get rid of corrals and waves completely. If you're fast enough, strong enough, and possess the determination to compete, more power to you.

Here's an idea! How about if you want to be considered "elite" and included in the "elite start" you focus on running faster and qualifying for that start? Maybe, just like everybody else who qualified to run the Boston Marathon, you take your assignment based on your ability level and qualifying time? Seems like that's what Boston is all about.

You're not elite. If you want to be elite, try harder.

I tend to agree that there should be one start, but at the end of the day 2 min won't be game changing. I am sure there will be a pack of runners going out in 1:09 that still gives you the chance to run a strong 2nd half and hit the OTQ. On a positive note, there's bound to be some carnage from the Men's Elite field and will give the top runners in C1W1 the chance to pick off some guys in the last half.

In a similar situation, in 2014 I ran the Peachtree Road Race 10k in 29:25 which would have finished 9th in the Elite Men's field. However, due to the staggered start I wasn't counted for it. At the end of the day it wasn't the $1,250 of prize money that I missed out on (couldn't have received due to NCAA rules) that bothered me, but instead the chance to say I was top 10 at a US Championship. Such is life.

For anyone attempting an OTQ at Boston, reach out to me. While I'm not sure 2:18:xx is in the cards I did run a 1:06 half last weekend on a hilly course, and with the crowd/tailwind in Boston anything is possible...

anidea wrote:

Here's an idea! How about if you want to be considered "elite" and included in the "elite start" you focus on running faster and qualifying for that start? Maybe, just like everybody else who qualified to run the Boston Marathon, you take your assignment based on your ability level and qualifying time? Seems like that's what Boston is all about.

You're not elite. If you want to be elite, try harder.

That's all well and good for the future. But for 2019 there's a group of athletes who have run around 2:20-30 who have trained for, paid for, and committed to running this marathon in 2019. They've paid that money and done that training under the presumption that they'd be in the same start as the elites, and hence have people to run with. BAA has now changed the rules/procedures on them after they've signed up, paid, and trained. That's not right.

If I were a 2:20 guy right now, this decision would make it easy to decide about whether to do Boston in the future. I just wouldn't do it unless I ran 2:15 or whatever and got into the elite field. But if I were a 2:20 guy who was racing Boston this year, I'd be livid, because this would mean I'd likely be running with nobody, instead of being part of the race that I'd trained for and potentially paid serious money (reg, lodging, etc.).

minde15 wrote:

...There was a volunteer wall in front of us ~ 50 meters from the starting line that got out of the way as they raised the gun so we were probably ~30-40 meters away by the time the gun went off (I want to say in 2013 it took me 4 seconds and in 2017 it took me 5 seconds to get to the starting line). 2018 was no different, so the 2:25 non-elite runner would have had to hang out in Athlete's village / corral 1 until the race began and started a couple seconds behind the elite field. Obviously Matt Herzig's 12th place finish last year was based on his gun time and not net time, but the couple seconds is not anywhere near as impactful as the new 2 minute break between elite field and corral 1.

The old start system sounds problematic- what if someone false starts, or the gun shoots a blank (happened at Manchester this year)? Maybe the Wave 1 runners stop in time, but maybe they can't and the elites get stampeded.

Maybe the Wave 1 runners stop in time, but maybe they can't and the elites get stampeded.

That only happens to Bekele. He doesn't run Boston.

Ironically, the 2 minute gap could make things worse. They'll be runners in the elite field who crater with no one to hang on to. They''ll be running alone and fall way back.

It's highly likely a few wave #1 runners pull a Chichester and chip the elite field. They'll be outrage, calls of unfairness, and they'll have to double pay again.

What'll they do next year? Wait 10 minutes?

Outrage is dying down. T

he problem's logical reasonable people don't have an army of woke SJWs on twitter to stir the pot. We get these wacky solutions as a result.

For a board that is as fixated on doping as this one (not a criticism), that no one has brought up the World Marathon Majors’ out-of-competition anti-doping pool and how allowing mass starters to compete with elites (for top placing, prize money, and WMM points) would undermine that is surprising.

Let me pose a hypothetical: A young, Albuquerque-based Morrocan distance runner with a 1:02 half PR who has won a couple C-list domestic marathons (Quad Cities, Dallas, etc) in 2:22-2:25 isn’t accepted into the elite field and registers for Boston. He goes on to have his marathon breakthrough and runs 2:11 for the third-fastest time of the day. He has not been part of the WMM out-of-competition testing protocols, and, in fact, there is no record of him ever being tested.

The question: Which system (the old start or new start) is better under these circumstances?

wow idiots managing a race?

give anyone enough control over an event as simple as running and they'll manage it well enough until they can start seeing ways to make things better without the humility of being a self-aware noob.

they think that they've been running the race for X many years, so this experience of doing things normally grants them a license to mess (edited out profanity here) it up for everyone. they aren't even running it, just putting it on. it be like if a concert venue were to make the band start their set 10 minutes before they opened the entrance for the audience.

Tower Porklets wrote:

If I'm paying money to enter a race it should be a FAIR race. That means all participants start at the same time. If some guys are getting a 2 minute head start, that is clearly an unfair advantage.

I won't be entering Boston whilst this rule is in place. Gun time determines race position - and as a 2:20 marathoner I wouldn't *win* the race, but my overall position will almost certainly be negatively impacted by these dudes getting a 2 minute head start.

I'm sure you'll be missed. Whoever you are.

And I am impressed that you consider Boston a race.

If you ain't in the first runners, your were not in a race. You must be an ELITE

And if you read further you'd see the time differences are accounted for.

Mcgillvray said in a recent podcast there are actually 3 races at Boston:

1: Elites

2: Age groupers

3: charity runners

If you're an age-grouper who thinks you can beat the elites, prove it before Boston.

threeraces wrote:

Mcgillvray said in a recent podcast there are actually 3 races at Boston:

1: Elites

2: Age groupers

3: charity runners

If you're an age-grouper who thinks you can beat the elites, prove it before Boston.

4. Masters?

minde15 wrote:

Hhdjjf wrote:

What is the cutoff time for elite masters men and women?

Not really sure, I think they generally always have just taken the top 15 men and women masters runners so it depends on who enters that year.

Also I do want to add that I have also never had elite fluids either the two times I have been in the elite field, so it wouldn't add to the logistics of that process either. The one thing it WOULD effect, is the Korean church would get pretty crowded with 200-300 women instead of 75 like there currently are. This is maybe where they could implement some sort of policy to get the extra women in the elite start a different way rather than housing them pre-race in the Korean church.

I think you guys are missing the bigger problem with adding that many women to the elite women's start: the elite men will be passing them. Sure they pass a few of them now. If you add that number of slower women they will have to pass packs of women instead of the random stragglers. Think about all the times you've run a race where a shorter race merges in before the finish line. Should the elite men have to deal with that?

suprised wrote:

Is this really a thing? Does that mean they limit BAA elite field to sub 2:19 guys only now?

I hope so. If I was the director of the Boston Marathon, the cutoff would be 2:15 men and 2:38 women.