Breaking: Adam Goucher says he thinks a resolution to the Salazar/NOP doping investigation is "coming very, very soon"

Dude, Robert's just dim and gets butthurt when people substantively point out how lacking in substance his site's reporting tends to be.

dont worry the brojos get super angry sometimes and show how much of a hypocrite they are.

they call out NOP, rupp, hassay, and al sal....and praise others when they do it....but when anyone tries to call out magness, the gouchers they come in all huffy and puffy. or say i call out people my comments get threats and deleted...no consistency on LR for sure.

so not to steal your thunder on this one, i want to add something that i really hope the brojos will answer.

brojos, we know magness, gouchers and others have drama against al sal, they claim they have damning things to say and then never say anything...but you guys!??! what exactly is your beef with al sal? did he mock you back in the day that you were too slow to be part of NOP? like im just super curious why you two get huge boners every single time something new comes to light on al sal and NOP.

i dont have a vendetta against him, but if i did i wouldnt cower away from saying why and what etc is the cause of my deep seated hatred towards him.

- do i think he is more than just grey area? YES

- do i think he is protected by nike due to being bff's with phil knight? YES

- do i think there is something like an affair between him and kara and thats why she never says anything ever since the leaked emails? YES

- do i think mo is dirty? YES

- do i think moens huge drop is due to EPO? YES

-if i had a personal vendetta against al sal would say so? YES.....unless i guess you are like kara and he has dirt on you that you afraid of being exposed.

facetious felix wrote:

Great, we will achieve 100% resolution by learning that:

• NOP are in the gray area

• They did not technically dope

• They do the maximum that is legal

Rules would need to change to change their "gray area" (that most cannot venture into based on lack of resources) to be able to count it as cheating.

This will be such breaking news.

Agree!

Agree!

Agree!

Gouchers!!!......Please GO AWAY!!!!

yo lets see these emails

1st park wrote:

yo lets see these emails

maybe you can stop being lazy and look for them yourself...im sure the brojos wont link the LR thread that was all about them

but in just a few seconds on google i found this you lazy groblet

"Kara Goucher, who was coached by Salazar for 7 years as a member of the Nike Oregon Project, originally accused Salazar of instructing her to use a prescribed thyroid medication to help with weight loss after the birth of her son. Salazar denied those claims and attached emails from 2011 showing his happiness with Goucher’s body composition. In addition, Salazar shed insight into Goucher leaving Nike Oregon Project, saying Kara’s husband Adam made the relationship unsustainable."

the LR thread had actual copy paste of these emails, and yes it read just like an affair.

i will try to find more on it

1st park wrote:

yo lets see these emails

"Goucher was angered by Salazar's lengthy open letter refuting the accusations leveled three weeks ago in a BBC/ProPublica documentary, in which Salazar portrayed her husband, Adam Goucher, as "belligerent" and said he dismissed them from his Nike Oregon Project training group.

"You know the expression: they took my quotes out of context," Goucher said at the US athletics trials. "And when you put partial emails or emails from a 10 email-long chain and just put one in you don't get both sides," she said of Salazar's formal response to the claims."

yeah no one has seen the full emails, just the little bit here and there that al sal edited so you only get a tiny bit of the conversation.

Resteigerman wrote:

"You’ve now got the body to take the pounding better than ever before and your engine is bigger than ever!"

yeah it's all in this quote.

lol didnt realize this is al sal hahaha

just seems a little off the way he describes things

- I noted that she is “rock hard everywhere”

- I emailed Kara, forwarding my email to her trainer, stating: “FYI- I’m not exaggerating, I’m so pumped about how ripped you are! You’ve now got the body to take the pounding better than ever before and your engine is bigger than ever! – Alberto”

- These documents make clear that I was thrilled with Kara’s weight after she had Colt and I told her so repeatedly

- In the warm-up area after that race, Adam became extremely emotional and belligerent toward me and the race plan we had developed together. My relationship with Adam never recovered. (i wonder what was this race strategy? be the rabbit for rupp?)

- I continued to coach Kara, however, and she continued to be successful. My relationship with Adam remained strained, but, Kara and I were able to overcome it. Adam also played a bigger role in her training, travel arrangements and other matters. He continually complained. Finally, things came to a head in Daegu when Adam went on an insulting rant. That was the last straw.

-After Daegu, I emailed Adam about his behavior. I told him that I did not want him involved in Kara’s workouts any longer and if that was not acceptable to Kara I would find a new coach for her. Kara was copied on this email and I also forwarded it to Magness and others in the Oregon Project.

- Kara responded shortly thereafter defending Adam and copied in Darren Treasure of the Oregon Project. I responded that Kara had to decide if she wanted me to coach her or not. I told her: I will not coach you if Adam continues with his actions and feelings. I care too much about you to go forward with a bound to fail proposition. Going forward, I’m no longer going to be handling any of your travel, hotels, etc. Adam…can set it up. (what about adams "feelings")

- Kara then responded: Alberto, I love you and love being coached by you. But if you don’t want to coach me anymore, please tell me now. I cannot go through another year by myself like this past year. If you don’t want to coach me, please tell me now so that I can figure out what I am going to do. I can’t stress enough how much I love you coaching me, but I can’t handle these types of threats leading into an Olympic year.

what threats? whats all this love talk? what exactly did adam say in daegu?

- When I returned from Brussels, Kara and I met and agreed it was best that we part ways and she find another coach. After our meeting we exchanged additional emails and parted friends. See Exhibit 25. I told her I still loved her. She wrote back that while we disagree on some things, we both agree that we care a lot for one another and hope that never changes. She wrote: “I have loved you for years now and don’t see that changing.” See Exhibit 25.

These emails make it abundantly clear why I stopped coaching Kara. It had nothing to do with the reasons implied in the BBC and ProPublica stories.

now again tell me if that sounds a bit more than just coach and athlete....again like i said back when all this first came out i totally side with adam, i would too get f*cking pissed if i was suspecting that my wife is getting pounded out by a shady coach, and this same coach used me as a training partner and rabbit for his lab rat ruppy poop.

but i guess most on LR are single and never been laid, never ran fast enough to even be considered good, then to be regulated to being a training body for an up and coming elf boy.

Er... wrote:

Rojo:

I have never "crapped all over him" in any way shape or form. I try as much as possible NOT to be negative on these boards. I was actually looking for concrete examples of the the things that are inducing so much stress in their lives. Are you saying that the Gouchers are reading these boards regularly and that's the source of their stress? If so, why not say that instead of calling me a jerk with absolutely no justification whatsoever?

The way you replied to me was totally uncalled for. I've been coming here for ten years and do no stir up crap. You owe me an apology.

I didn't mean to upset you and apologize for the tone of my post. Yes the stress comes from these boards. Look, all running stress is basically self created. Some pro is obsessed at the US Olympic Trials. Big deal. Walk down to your hometown supermarket and see if anyone in the world even knows about it.

In the grand scheme of things, it's totally unimportant. BUt for runners, it's by far the most important thing in the world.

Thank you, Rojo.

Big picture I'm a Goucher fan but lately so much of the news about them has been troubling. Kara's emotional roller coaster is an expression of who she is, and I don't think she should be shamed or mocked for it. That said, it's getting a little tired.

I feel badly for Adam, though, because he comes across to me as the former star athlete who's having trouble adjusting to life after his prime. He's distanced from the elite circle because his career's over; and he's doubly distanced because the campaign against Salazar has created so many enemies. If he moved on and didn't look back, he wouldn't feel the intense pressure that he does. But clearly he can't move on until there's some sort of closure.

Netflix sucks, doc

what the L-carnitine saga showed was that both anti-doping officials and elite coaches have a grasp of science below high school chemistry level. A 50 mL injection limit is not going to stop anyone from injecting a substance if it dawns on them that all they have to do is concentrate the substance to a legal volume.

Did they ever even conclude that L-carnitine was an effective PED? They banned huffing argon with no evidence at all that it actually worked, relying on bogus claims about protecting the health of athletes. Argon is a non-toxic inert gas, electrochemically similar to helium and neon, so the ADAs said it had to be banned because hydrogen sulfide is toxic. Nobody is huffing hydrogen sulfide, but apparently their own scientists accepted that irrelevant association. They should be embarrassed.

Bad Wigins wrote:

what the L-carnitine saga showed was that both anti-doping officials and elite coaches have a grasp of science below high school chemistry level. A 50 mL injection limit is not going to stop anyone from injecting a substance if it dawns on them that all they have to do is concentrate the substance to a legal volume.

Did they ever even conclude that L-carnitine was an effective PED? They banned huffing argon with no evidence at all that it actually worked, relying on bogus claims about protecting the health of athletes. Argon is a non-toxic inert gas, electrochemically similar to helium and neon, so the ADAs said it had to be banned because hydrogen sulfide is toxic. Nobody is huffing hydrogen sulfide, but apparently their own scientists accepted that irrelevant association. They should be embarrassed.

my guess is argon being a noble gas prob works like xeon does

i think al sal and others pretend to be dumb dumbs on things but actually are f*cking brilliant on how these things work on the body, waaaaay before the science does the research and publishes a peer reviewed article on it.

i mean the guy who created THG, aka the "clear" and the other one he dubbed the "cream" had to have been pretty good at chemistry to make designer steroids that not only worked, but did so better than anything else that has been created.

Something I find implausible about the whole situation is that Kara was in contention for major marathon victories under Salazar - was his top athlete for several years before Rupp and Farah became world-beaters - yet she says she never doped or was asked to dope.

So Salazar is cleanly coaching Kara to contention in big-city marathons then decides to dope other athletes without involving her at all?

So tired of the Gouchers. Here is what they expect you to believe. That:

-both were great runners in the nop while doping was going on but they did none.

-that Kara had the most success of any nop runners but everyone else was doping.

- that they left nop but kept their mouths shut for a period of time because?

-that Kara never repeated her success that she had at nop but was not doping at anytime.

-that Kara went to the same doctor the nop guys did but.......

If they saw doping the only valid time to report it was when it happened. Sorry, you do not get to wait. It comes off more likely as sour grapes and pettiness. Grow up and move on.

My only gripe with m!ndweak is that now I can only think about plowing that nutter Karen Gotcher.

Gwalkerruns wrote:

blah blah blah

I'm so tired of you - apologizing for the NOP for years.

eazy epo wrote:

Banana Bread wrote:

The way I predict that the NOP fall apart is if members of the NOP have a big falling out and relationship issues and literally let the cat out of the bag. Take Kelejcha and Hassan. Saladbar's new star pupils. I predict a big relationship between these will blossom. It will go sour but not sure the exact reason. Maybe Kelejcha will cheat with Klosterhalfen Konstance. They will fight and someone is going to literally spill beans because I'm sure they will be well aware of eachother's exact doping regime.

+1

Yes I was wondering about this. Not KK though.

tranparency about what exactly? wrote:

hilarious 5 star rating wrote:

That is beside the point, because:

a) You don't get dehydrated by 20% as a 3000 m runner in training.

b) You don't get tested while dehydrated (since 2009).

and

c) Jager blamed altitude, not dehydration, but altitude is considered in the ABP.

a) You have no idea what you are talking about. Hematocrit can be 40 during mid week and rise during taper because of less volume of training. Rising more after a race because you sweat after the race, especially if c) you are racing at altitude where hematocrit rises dramatically because of the low humidity.

The IAAF don't seem to know any of these things and neither do you.

Your problems with that line of thought are that Jager's likely doping data are from base training, so neither tapered nor dehydrated. And as pointed out by others before, the IAAF knows about these effects which is why they don't take tests of dehydrated runners anymore.

You are also wrong with the "dramatically"..., but that is irrelevant, see above. There are actually lots of data out there that show that the day-to-day or taper variations are rather small, which is why this system does not falsely identify 1000s of runners. See for example Moen's data, or the ones cited by Tucker.

With Jager being the worst offender of a small group of athletes (e.g., only one Brit, one German, four Americans, 10ish Kenyans and so on), it is hard to blame coincidence here.

In fact, the IAAF and CAS put so much trust into the likely doping status that they disqualified Rita in Boston 2014 because of her likely doping status from that spring + the positive EPO test from the September after (!) Boston.

m!ndweak wrote:

my guess is argon being a noble gas prob works like xeon does

yes, actually it was xenon they said people were huffing, but I guess they banned argon too. The idea was supposed to be that these heavier-than-air gases would sit inertly in the bottom of the lungs, reducing their capacity and producing an altitude-like adaptation.

But the ADA's didn't say this; in fact they expressly stated they couldn't prove it had any effect at all. So they decided to equate it with hydrogen sulfide.