Asbel Kiprop on Living Under Doping Cloud

Rekrunner = Mindweak? Huh? Mindweak (Chad) actually revealed his identity on previous posts, (e.g. hometown, college, degrees, PBs, etc.).

OTOH, Rekrunner is just a mysterious man somewhere in Europe. (I'm a mysterious guy somewhere in the U.S. Lol). Rekrunner been posting for several years under the same handle. I've been following & responding to his posts for a couple of years now. Bottom line with Rekrunner: he believes the performance benefits of PED use with elite athletes, particularly EPO/blood doping (i.e. O2-vector doping), are grossly overstated/estimated by scientists, dopers, coaches, media & many of us here. And any fast time, medal/title winning performance, etc. accomplished by an athlete positive for EPO or sanctioned for high Hgb & anomalies on their ABP can't be attributed to the doping i.e. "correlation doesn't equal causation" BS. Many of us will probably move on over next several years but good ole Rekrunner will always be here defending his position with his same old aggressive M.O. ?

This is not a good conclusion. The AIU has 27 cases which are awaiting adjudication. Quite a few of them are older than the Kiprop case. So there is no reason to conclude that the delay is due to something specific to the Kiprop case. It is just due to a very poor process at the AIU that involves a lack of transparency and excessive time frames.

El Keniano wrote:

Keboji wrote:

I'd say there's something that's preventing a cut and dry closed case after almost a year.

Which is all we're saying.

Coevett wrote:

The same goes for the likes of the older Manangoi brother who defended Kiprop so resolutely. I understand that they are friends, but they must be really close friends for Manangoi to come to his defence like that, and then that speaks a lot about the odds of him being a doper also.

As usual, you grossly mischaracterize his actual response to Kiprop’s testing positive.

What Coburn said was that given the history of doping in the steeplechase, when someone runs 8:45 after running 9 minutes all year, it raises suspicion. She said she still believes 8:45 is possible clean.

In what world are you such a delicate flower that this comes off as unreasonable, classless, or racist?

Oh Please wrote:

The only thing that's "off" is people thinking that he is not, in fact, a doper.

1) Athlete runs 3:26, toys with world class fields

2) Knowledgeable fans start to question how clean this person might be

3) Other fans claim "no way, he's always tested negative."

4) Athlete then tests positive

5) Other fans now claim "something's off!"

Cold hard fact: If you are a WR holder or otherwise "head and shoulders" above your competition, then you are surely doped.

This is such poor logic.

Your whole idea that a dominant athlete must be a doped athlete makes an assumption that the athlete in question is unique in their doping. (Otherwise, they would not be "toying with fields" and "head and shoulders above.")

But obviously there is just as much incentive for other Kenyan and elite runners to dope. Is Kiprop is, it is ridiculous to assume that everyone else isn't. So how is it that one runner is so dominant?

Do you think that Kiprop was the ONLY doped 1500m runner in Kenya? Do you think he was the ONLY doped runner in the elite 1500m?

the eyeroller wrote:

Coevett wrote:

The same goes for the likes of the older Manangoi brother who defended Kiprop so resolutely. I understand that they are friends, but they must be really close friends for Manangoi to come to his defence like that, and then that speaks a lot about the odds of him being a doper also.

As usual, you grossly mischaracterize his actual response to Kiprop’s testing positive.

Not really (lol).

He said that Kiprop was a 'good and humble person' (the guy who pumped and dumped a 16 year old, beat up a bar manager and told him not to call the police because HE WAS the police, and kidnapped and beat his own wife), and that he hoped he would be cleared.

Elijah also boasted AFTER Kiprop's bust that he would break the WR. Arguably that's in bad taste, when your mentor, the only guy in recent years to get anywhere near the EPO WR, had just been busted for EPO.

Kiprop also claimed that Elijah could break the world record, describing him as a 'fresh talent' who could take the 1500m to the next level. Do you think that if doped up Kiprop thought that Manangoi was/is clean, he would be o.k. with the idea that he would run faster than him?

Dude, you should totally write fiction.

Oh wait! You already do!

lolz

You think El K doesn't defend doped Kenyans? This thread was made by him to defend Kiprop.

You're missing the point. Most Kenyans don't appear to support Kiprop, even die hard fans. They're furious that cheats like Kiprop are destroying the reputation of Kenyan running. El K also takes it to another level by making outrageous claims that doping busts in Kenya only prove that there is LESS doping there than in the West. He also believes that anyone who brings up doping in Kenya on this forum is a 'troll' and a racist.

He did not "defend Kiprop so resolutely", least of all to the likelihood of himself being a doper. He said that he was sad about the bust because he thought Kiprop was a good guy and that he hoped it wasn't true.

It's even more absurd to say that having ambitions of breaking the world record is indicative of doping. As if you need to dream small to be clean.

You've got me on the first name thing. I can't greet you with yours. One thing that I was trying to emphasize with the comment about how nice Jacobs was is that you can be a really nice and maybe even otherwise good person and still be a drug cheat. But in Kiprop's case there are people who know him, say he's really a good person who is not a drug cheat but is being framed and that if that's true in Kiprop's case maybe a lie detector test would give some credence to his claims of innocence.

I certainly am not saying that I think he's innocent and I think that the doping situation in Kenya overall makes it hard to believe that he is. But there have been several documented cases of people being executed for capital crimes in the US who were later found to be innocent so I don't think it's impossible that some clean athlete could be found guilty of doping and if that is the case here I feel bad for the guy. If not, I don't. And to respond to some responses others have made to my original post, I am not claiming that Kiprop's being framed, I'm repeating what someone told me so don't ask me who is framing him or why, nor do I have any idea what the people who told me he's a good guy would say about the video someone posted. The views expressed in that post are not necessarily those of Rich/HRE

Coevett wrote:

They turn it into a polarized discussion of extremes. Either everyone dopes (or doping doesn't work) or nobody dopes. Those taking more moderate and reasonable positions based on evidence and actual doping busts, who claim that doping is worse in some places than others (for example East Africa - a view shared by 99% of people outside this forum, from the athletics community to the general public) are slandered as 'racists'.

You are in your forties, you've been running for what, 2 or 3 years, and yet you know the view of the athletics community and general public outside this forum.

And I am sure you really believe you do.

the eyeroller wrote:

Coevett wrote:

The same goes for the likes of the older Manangoi brother who defended Kiprop so resolutely. I understand that they are friends, but they must be really close friends for Manangoi to come to his defence like that, and then that speaks a lot about the odds of him being a doper also.

As usual, you grossly mischaracterize his actual response to Kiprop’s testing positive.

Here's the actual passage the dummy is referring to:

“My ultimate target is to accomplish Brother Colm’s prediction that I will be Olympic champion, at the 2020 Tokyo Olympic Games.”

“Adding the Africa, World Cup and Olympic titles to my collection should make me a complete athlete, and that is my desire, God-willing.”

Something else is on Manangoi’s mind this season.

The world record of 3:20.00 [typo, obviously] set by Moroccan Hicham El Guerrouj on July 14, 1998. “I want attempt to break the record either in Rome on May 31 or in Monaco on July 20.”

“It’s possible since I’m in better shape than the last two seasons. It’s all about hard work, self-belief, concentration and focus.”

The difficult issue of doping in athletics is not lost on him, especially after his mentor Kiprop was recently flagged for using a banned performance enhancer.

“I am in shock till now, and I hope he is cleared. Asbel is never jealous and is such a humble and good person.”

He is quick to appeal to fellow athletes to desist from using short cuts.

“It will ruin not only their health, but also their careers,” he concludes as his younger brother George, the world youth champion, and other athletes soak in the cool breeze at their accommodation after a hard morning training session."

It takes some serious mental gymnastics to twist that into statements that "speak a lot about the odds of him being a doper also." Projection at it's crudest.

spade detector wrote:

It takes some serious mental gymnastics to twist that into statements that "speak a lot about the odds of him being a doper also."

Idiot, no it doesn't, for the runner all it takes is to walk in to a local pharma bucket shop and part with a few shillings, try doing that in most other countries around the world.

Which rock have you been living under? wrote:

spade detector wrote:

It takes some serious mental gymnastics to twist that into statements that "speak a lot about the odds of him being a doper also."

Idiot, no it doesn't, for the runner all it takes is to walk in to a local pharma bucket shop and part with a few shillings, try doing that in most other countries around the world.

Performance enhancing drugs are absolutely easier to come by in Kenya. That has nothing to do with my post, though, "idiot".

spade detector wrote:

Which rock have you been living under? wrote:

Idiot, no it doesn't, for the runner all it takes is to walk in to a local pharma bucket shop and part with a few shillings, try doing that in most other countries around the world.

Performance enhancing drugs are absolutely easier to come by in Kenya. That has nothing to do with my post, though, "idiot".

+1

000 wrote:

Coevett wrote:

They turn it into a polarized discussion of extremes. Either everyone dopes (or doping doesn't work) or nobody dopes. Those taking more moderate and reasonable positions based on evidence and actual doping busts, who claim that doping is worse in some places than others (for example East Africa - a view shared by 99% of people outside this forum, from the athletics community to the general public) are slandered as 'racists'.

You are in your forties, you've been running for what, 2 or 3 years, and yet you know the view of the athletics community and general public outside this forum.

And I am sure you really believe you do.

No I've been running for less than a year, what does that matter? Do you stop fellow hobby joggers in the park and ask them their opinion on the state of doping? I've been following athletics on and off for nearly 40 years and I don't stay in this weird bubble called LetsRun. You're completely detached from reality if you don't think that the majority of athletics fans and likely elite runners (including Kenyans) accept that doping is worse in some places (ie. East Africa, Russia, Morocco) than other places.

Coevett wrote:

000 wrote:

You are in your forties, you've been running for what, 2 or 3 years, and yet you know the view of the athletics community and general public outside this forum.

And I am sure you really believe you do.

No I've been running for less than a year, what does that matter? Do you stop fellow hobby joggers in the park and ask them their opinion on the state of doping? I've been following athletics on and off for nearly 40 years and I don't stay in this weird bubble called LetsRun. You're completely detached from reality if you don't think that the majority of athletics fans and likely elite runners (including Kenyans) accept that doping is worse in some places (ie. East Africa, Russia, Morocco) than other places.

Worse or just other nations getting away with it more?

001 wrote:

Worse or just other nations getting away with it more?

For sure, places like Kenya and Ethiopia are certainly getting away with it more.