Updated on 9/12/2024. We merged two threads into 1 and combined the titles.
Floating boats wrote:
not a grammar nazi, but . . . wrote:
It's threshold, not treshold. Surprised this being letsrun this wasn't the first comment.
It's obvious that his first language is not English. People that don't get a pass are North American adults that write like retarded 3rd graders.
It`s obvious that improving the lactate threshold is of main importance. Not base building.
Just run your cruise intervals week after week and you will reach your very best capacity.
Do tell us your cruise interval sessions Jan, I'm all ears ?
Kobenhavn wrote:
fred wrote:
" Jacob has amazed the experts with his extreme aerobic endurance. "
Oh really, which ones
Essentially anyone that has some idea of physiology when shown the numbers of an 18 year old.
You see extreme aerobic endurance in this:
One Mile Performance3:52.28 Wind PlaceEugene, OR (USA) Date26 MAY 2018 Records
Discipline2000 Metres Performance5:24.41 Wind PlaceLillestrøm (NOR) Date13 SEP 2015 Records
Discipline3000 Metres Performance8:00.01 Wind PlaceBergen (NOR) Date01 SEP 2017 Records
Discipline5000 Metres Performance13:17.06 Wind PlaceBerlin (GER) Date 11 AUG 2018
I don't. I see inherent speed, but not extreme endurance.
Different years, different races and different race styles in each event. Are you an idiot or a troll?
One of them was from 2015. He is young and improving rapidly each year, so trying to compare times from one year to the next in different events is meaningless.
almost over the hill wrote:
First, you really don't know if he is clean or not. That assumption may prove to be false. If you followed nordic skiing at all you might not be so quick on your declarations.
If you have followed nordic skiing at all you will not find one incident of a top norwegian athlete using EPO.
When he runs 10 miles in 45 minutes, then you can say he has extreme aerobic endurance.
fred wrote:
When he runs 10 miles in 45 minutes, then you can say he has extreme aerobic endurance.
You have no clue what you're talking about.
Threshold pace us race pace over that distance. Basically flat out not as the op implies
ukathleticscoach wrote:
Threshold pace us race pace over that distance. Basically flat out not as the op implies
No. Just no. Please keep your black pearls to yourself.
almost over the hill wrote:
Halviking wrote:
Jakob has had his yearly threshold test. The new result is between 21-22 km/h.
Not bad to be 18y.
Not bad at 18? He only has a couple more good years left...
Kenenisa Bekele (ETH) Age 21 12:37.35
Haile Gebrselassie (ETH) Age 25 12:39.36
Daniel Komen (KEN) Age 21 12:39.74
Eliud Kipchoge (KEN) Age 19 12:46.53
Dejen Gebremeskel (ETH) Age 22 12:46.81
Sileshi Sihine (ETH) Age 21 12:47.04
Hagos Gebriwhet (ETH) Age 18 12:47.53
Isaiah Koech (KEN) Age 18 12:48.64
Isaac Songok (KEN) Age 22 12:48.66
Yenew Alamirew (ETH) Age 22 12:48.77
Stephen Cherono (KEN) Age 20 12:48.81
Thomas Longosiwa (KEN) Age 20 12:49.04
Didn’t even include Barega, Gebriwhet and Kejelcha’s times from this past summer. -10 for an old, unupdated list. Another -10 for comparing Jakob to sub 12:50 runners, when his PR is 13:17.
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
It`s obvious that improving the lactate threshold is of main importance. Not base building.
Just run your cruise intervals week after week and you will reach your very best capacity.
I did 3 consecutive month easy pace + some strides base building (40-50 mpw, 9:50-10:40 pace, 47ish 10k hobbyjogger), and by the end of the 3 months, my slow AND my fast pace stayed the same at the given HR. I run all my easies on sub80% maxHR.
No improvement for 3 months... ZERO.
In breaking2 the lactate threshold of Eliud Kipchoge, Zersenay Tadese, and Lelisa Desisa were also measured. Does anyone here has those numbers to compare to Jakob?
JabbyJaywalker wrote:
In breaking2 the lactate threshold of Eliud Kipchoge, Zersenay Tadese, and Lelisa Desisa were also measured. Does anyone here has those numbers to compare to Jakob?
They claimed Tadese had the best numbers they'd seen while Kipchoge didn’t perform well on a treadmill.
hateeasydays wrote:
I did 3 consecutive month easy pace + some strides base building (40-50 mpw, 9:50-10:40 pace, 47ish 10k hobbyjogger), and by the end of the 3 months, my slow AND my fast pace stayed the same at the given HR. I run all my easies on sub80% maxHR.
No improvement for 3 months... ZERO.
To be fair, 9:50-10:40 pace is fcking slow. Is that all you did for 3 months (plus strides)?
TresholdFTW wrote:
interested reader wrote:
Thanks for the post.
How do the Ingebrigtsen's train their threshold? Is it stuff like 400m intervals a bit faster than threshold pace with a short recovery or longer intervals right on the threshold pace?
I guess that they also avoid intense workouts while trying to build their threshold in the off season.
Well, they train at treshold, meaning at lactate below 3.5 mmol. So they aren't really concerned with the treshold pace when they do treshold intervals, just to keep their training below 3.5, meaning its a treshold workout but not necessarily at "treshold pace" as you think of it.
I've written about their training here before, just search my name. They basically have 2 days a week (Tuesday and Thursdag) where they have long treshold intervals in the morning, and shorter treshold intervals in the evening).
Then, each Saturday they do 2x200m hills pretty hard, above treshold. They basically train like this from October until April.
So they keep lactate below 3.5 mmol, I am curious what that means regarding pace. I know people have put estimated paces up for various mmol (i.e. 4 mmol would be threshold pace or 1 hour race pace or something like that). What happens when you are doing repeats with short rest? Could you be running repeats at 10k pace but the rest keeps the lactate down? Does it depend on fitness?
Training with a lactate meter seems less common in the US so I haven't really seen anything about how it is done.
Kobenhavn wrote:
fred wrote:
" Jacob has amazed the experts with his extreme aerobic endurance. "
Oh really, which ones
Essentially anyone that has some idea of physiology when shown the numbers of an 18 year old.
Maybe they should get out more. He isn't exactly going to run a great 5k anytime soon.
peekay wrote:
TresholdFTW wrote:
Well, they train at treshold, meaning at lactate below 3.5 mmol. So they aren't really concerned with the treshold pace when they do treshold intervals, just to keep their training below 3.5, meaning its a treshold workout but not necessarily at "treshold pace" as you think of it.
I've written about their training here before, just search my name. They basically have 2 days a week (Tuesday and Thursdag) where they have long treshold intervals in the morning, and shorter treshold intervals in the evening).
Then, each Saturday they do 2x200m hills pretty hard, above treshold. They basically train like this from October until April.
So they keep lactate below 3.5 mmol, I am curious what that means regarding pace. I know people have put estimated paces up for various mmol (i.e. 4 mmol would be threshold pace or 1 hour race pace or something like that). What happens when you are doing repeats with short rest? Could you be running repeats at 10k pace but the rest keeps the lactate down? Does it depend on fitness?
Training with a lactate meter seems less common in the US so I haven't really seen anything about how it is done.
4mmol for an athlete on a session might mean a certain pace that completely differs the next time that same session is done, so attaching a specific pace is essentially nebulous. You are correct in that the rest keeps the lactate down. One of their sessions is 25x400 with 45 sec rest, performing the session beneath a specific mmol level.
Lofoten wrote:
peekay wrote:
So they keep lactate below 3.5 mmol, I am curious what that means regarding pace. I know people have put estimated paces up for various mmol (i.e. 4 mmol would be threshold pace or 1 hour race pace or something like that). What happens when you are doing repeats with short rest? Could you be running repeats at 10k pace but the rest keeps the lactate down? Does it depend on fitness?
Training with a lactate meter seems less common in the US so I haven't really seen anything about how it is done.
4mmol for an athlete on a session might mean a certain pace that completely differs the next time that same session is done, so attaching a specific pace is essentially nebulous. You are correct in that the rest keeps the lactate down. One of their sessions is 25x400 with 45 sec rest, performing the session beneath a specific mmol level.
Ok fine the pace changes, but I am sure there is a rough ballpark. And if they can truly keep the lactate under control, there must at least be a "feel" to the lactate level.
I just find it interesting that they have all these different workouts (25x400, 10x100, 5x2k) with similar lactates. I assume that they run the short reps faster and use the rest to keep the lactate the same, but that sort of contradicts the way some people /coaches have used certain lactate levels as a way to describe pace (2.5mmol is MP, 4mmol is T pace, etc) on these boards in the past.
rewtard wrote:
Last year I know Jakob did 12x1000m intervals around 2:55/km. This was at sea level around a pond on gravel.
Thanks! That compares with Kipchoge running maybe 2:50 at altitude for about the same number, maybe a few more.
It is remarkable how they go so fast at 1500m with so little work at mile pace. They mention in the last show a 10x300m workout before European Champs where they start way too fast for Gjert's taste at 41/40, but they were supposed to run 42's at the end, and they call this ahead of time the toughest workout of the season. But to the guy above, they are not improving by only doing easy runs and strides. They are doing LT work something like five times a week, which seems to be roughly 1 hr pace.
On the loops at St. Moritz, Gjert says that Jakob started with lactate at essentially 0, but the three ended the same (I thought he said at 8), which he found remarkable, the three all synchronizing. So, he has this advantage of hardly even developing lactate at lower speeds and about the 13:17, that is nowhere near his 2018 capacity. He ran that time in a Euro champ race where he closed in 60 and faster, but he also medaled at World Junior's, beating a certain 12:43 guy, and running a very fast close to 13:20. He could almost certainly have gone 12:50s in Brussels in that race.
not always wrote:
hateeasydays wrote:
I did 3 consecutive month easy pace + some strides base building (40-50 mpw, 9:50-10:40 pace, 47ish 10k hobbyjogger), and by the end of the 3 months, my slow AND my fast pace stayed the same at the given HR. I run all my easies on sub80% maxHR.
No improvement for 3 months... ZERO.
To be fair, 9:50-10:40 pace is fcking slow. Is that all you did for 3 months (plus strides)?
Yes... :(
Have been running 2 years now, but did lot's of other sports for 20+ years, running was always a crosstraining once or twice a month. Last year I started to learn about "HR control running" and "base building" and stuff like that. That was the winter method to go I put together reading (mediocre) sites.
Now I think I'm a bit smarter and know my body a bit better.