Flash news! Saina Kipkemboi 2:05:20 debut! Running alone the last 17km, heat, humidity and hilly circuit in Buenos Aires!

I know. There was altitude. But how many Kenyans can run a 14:38 5k in altitude. 500/600? And I'm being too generous.

Mumias is 1258m above sea level. Kisii is 1700m above sea level. Not like Iten/Kapsabet/Kaptagat...

ALPHA MALE HERE wrote:

By how much? Altitude doesn't effect people raised at altitude as much. So that 14 min 5k is worth what? Maybe in the 13:40s. Imagine is some nobody in America came out of nowhere to run a similar time and had similar prs, pretty sure this board would be saying the same thing. Doesn't matter the ethnicity anyone who does that is suspicious.

We've had Americans on drugs and they've come nowhere close to this. Mo Trafeh. Admittedly, didn't he try to run with the leaders in London?

Jonathan Gault wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

IKR? Just realised it is 20 degrees Celsius, which is considered cool temps in Kenya. Quite disappointed by the unnecessary innuendo especially by supposedly respectable journos.

https://twitter.com/jgault13/status/1043869722973007877https://twitter.com/d9monti/status/1043975763798740993

Unnecessary? Come on man. My job isn't to play cheerleader, it's to report relevant facts, and the fact that a guy who came out of nowhere to run a 2:05 marathon is represented by an agency that has had several of its best athletes test positive in recent years is certainly relevant.

I don't know whether Kipkemboi is doping or not -- I didn't know anything about the guy before Sunday -- but would you rather I just stick my head in the sand?

not just several...they do have names

jiptoo

sumgong

kiprop

you know super fast in boston, olympic golds and "genetic" freaks lolz

The OP vastly overestimates his knowledge of weather. It was neither hot nor humid. 64 degrees and 55 DP. Start time 7am. Absolutely great running conditions.

m!ndweak wrote:

runnerdave wrote:

Duh. The way the earth rotates, marathons are 5% faster in the southern hemisphere. More ground moves under your feet when you're in the air.

buuuuut what if the earth is flat....maybe thats why EPO doesnt work!?!?!??!

I Bett that is the reason ?

malmo wrote:

The OP vastly overestimates his knowledge of weather. It was neither hot nor humid. 64 degrees and 55 DP. Start time 7am. Absolutely great running conditions.

1-You are underestimating the fact that I know Buenos Aires weather very well because I lived there. Brojos can check that. And It wasn't 64 degrees. 66 at least. And peaks over 70s during the race.

2-Forget about me. You're underestimating what the runners said. Cristian Pacheco (2:11) said it clearly to ESPN 1 minute after he finished. Miguel Barzola (7th in 2:16) said it too. See again the video. I can translate some quotes for you.

Kipserem (2:06 low PB) was a DNF after 30k, Another of the Kenyans (Godfrei Kosgei, bombed after 25k and finished in 2:14).

Three Peruvians attempting at least the 2019 Panamerican Games-qualification standard (2:16), (Raul Machacuay, Jean Pierre Castro and Max Belisario) failed after 1:03.xx at half mark. Machacuay, a 2:13 athlete, finished in 2:24.

For the argentinians: They also wanted to achieve the Pan Am standard, so they put two track specialists as pacers for the first half. Federico Bruno (3:38 in 1500m and 2:15 in the marathon) and Javier Carriqueo (3:38 in 1500m-13:26 in 5000m).

Mastromarino (2:15 PB) was on pace for 2:15.xx until the 30k, but after that he bombed and finished in 2:20. And he medaled in 2015 Toronto Pan Ams with similar conditions.

Luis Molina (2:15 PB) was also on pace for 2:16 after half (1:07.xxx) but was a DNF. Miguel Barzola (2:15 flat PB) was very happy at the end. He said on the interview that in this race did his best strategy. Being conservative until the 30k, in 2:19 pace. He never used this approach in other Marathons like London, Rotterdam or Valencia, because he felt that he was in 2:13 shape.

There were 25 athletes entered with sub 2:20 PBs. That isn't normal in South America.

So clearly, it was a hard race after the 25k, for almost everybody on the elite field, minus Pacheco (2:11) and Ayala (2:13), with even splits, and the unknown Emmanuel Saina Kipkemboi and his 28:21 between 25k and 35k (1:59.xx pace).

You probably think that this topic is a clickbalt. But it's not. I repeat. This was equal to 2:03.xx in faster courses like Berlin this year, or Frankfurt, Doha, or a hurricane-aided Boston in 2011.

Ben L Wrong wrote:

malmo wrote:

The OP vastly overestimates his knowledge of weather. It was neither hot nor humid. 64 degrees and 55 DP. Start time 7am. Absolutely great running conditions.

1-You are underestimating the fact that I know Buenos Aires weather very well because I lived there. Brojos can check that. And It wasn't 64 degrees. 66 at least. And peaks over 70s during the race.

.....blah blah da blah

Facts dont lie. Not only was it cool, the race was run in the early morning when the suns altitude us low.

About the link that you provided, Claypole weather station is 35km from the place of the start line. I was in the neighborhood of the race at the time, seeing the race on TV, and my cell phone gave me 68F at the start. That's why I made a new post. Minutes after the race. Also my phone gave me less humidity than the broadcast report on that matter. ESPN said 78% 20 minutes after the start (you can check that in youtube).

So, If give you the 66F at the start, and you give me the 78% humidity at the start (and increasing during the race, like the official TV coverage said) the result is the same: The course wasn't fast, and the weather conditions were far from ideal.

"Humidity" is a meaningless metric. The dew point was 55, whichis absolutely great for running. Temperature in the early morning is quite different than the same temperature at noon. The conditions were great. 7th grade physical science stuff.

So you're implying that Pacheco is a liar. And that almost every elite finisher of the marathon exxagerated the difficulty of the race to the media.

Apophis99 wrote:

El Keniano wrote:

Those times were run in Kenya. Of course they're slower.

They’re slow, period.

Then suddenly they’re obscene. Hmm.

Which NOP athletes have been popped for EPO? I’ll wait.

That settles it, then. Nothing dodgy going on at the NOP. They're clean.

I investigated a bit what happened there and there were several aiding factors.

1.The wind was definitely helping them.

2.The course was SHORT. You can see it for yourself looking at the splits. Just check the time between 20 and Half for example Saina covered the 1.1km in something like 2:26 which would be under 1000m world record pace, lol. How short the course was i don't know, but probably a few hundred meters.

Saina's run was still very good nonetheless but the course wasn't that hilly, actually it was the flatest version ever for the Buenos Aires's marathon. Also the weather was decent. A good performance but nothing more than that. I think it will be very hard for him to ever beat his PB on a well measured course.

Exactly...some splits were a bit odd. Also, I have checked GPS tracks on Strava and people had distances ranging from 42.16Km to 42.24Km This suggests taking into account that GPS tend to measure marathons LONG that the course was around 300m short so 1’ faster for our breakthrough runner maybe...

I don’t care the course was measured by IAAF. The race took place in Argentina which is a chaos of a country, nothimg works there.

15LucasATR wrote:

Exactly...some splits were a bit odd. Also, I have checked GPS tracks on Strava and people had distances ranging from 42.16Km to 42.24Km This suggests taking into account that GPS tend to measure marathons LONG that the course was around 300m short so 1’ faster for our breakthrough runner maybe...

I don’t care the course was measured by IAAF. The race took place in Argentina which is a chaos of a country, nothimg works there.

How so? Buenos Aires is ready for hosting Youth Olympics. In some days.

Some weeks ago there was a half marathon. Mosinet Geremew (winner of Doha Marathon) won in 59:48. He beat Bedan Karoki (59:49)at the line.

Geremew and Karoki are in the Chicago Marathon elite field. But surely the circuit was short, and both times under sub 60 are fake???

You cannot accept that Buenos Aires is going to be the mecca of road running in America.

I ran Buenos Aires for the third consecutive year and I agree with Malmo on the weather. It wasn't that much of an issue in my opinion, around 19C and overcast, with some sun later around 8AM but nothing too bad for Buenos Aires. Last year we got slightly better weather even though the race was 1 month later in October, around 15/16C according to my log. Race won just under 2:10 by the guy that placed second this year (CR at the time).

This course was the HILLIER of the 3 (the course is sometimes adjusted because of road work or stuff like that, but is always certified again). This time there were 2 really big hills because you had to get into an overhead highway twice (the previous year only once).

The distance came up ok on my garmin and everyone else I asked (may still be slightly short, but probably not much if at all), but some of the splits are probably wrong. I remember the HM timing mat looking off-place when I crossed it, and the official results now lists the splits as 20.3km, 21km and 25.3km (instead of 20km, 21.1km and 25km), so that may explain both the fast HM split (around 700/800m from the 20km split) and the fast 25-30km split (4700m or so). The fast 30-35km could be explained by the wind (which you could really feel behind you on that part of the course that had no cover) and the huge downhill when coming off the highway (losing almost 40m in about 300m/400m).

Just my two cents from inside the race, feel free to ask anything else

Great stuff. How did you feel the humidity? In the 70s? 60s?

It was somewhat humid but then again, it almost always is over here. Nothing that would affect you with those temps. It can be way worse this time of the year. Just the day before the marathon it was 27C and 90% humidity in the afternoon.

To make it clear, they were good running conditions. Not world record good, of course, but good enough for running fast.