2018 Berlin Marathon Discussion Thread: Will Kipchoge get the WR? Will Dibaba get the win?

Orren wrote:

No sure what you are talking about, Kipsang uses the same drink as Bekele, Kipchoge, Kamworor, Rupp, Kirui. Cheruiyot, Wanjiru among others. Kipsang's first race with Maurten last year was his 2:03 in Tokyo, Bekele ran his 2:03 pr using Maurten, Kipchoge has run all of his last races including Monza with Maurten.

If anything Maurten seems to help the athletes not hinder them, they need those extra carbs on the last 10k.

THEY DO NOT NEED THAT BULL S H I T.

Yes, it is the same drink, but HIGHER SOLUTION, which I already posted, but I will post again. Again, Kipsang takes a higher solution than all the other athletes who take the drink. He took it ( 18 percent carb solution) for Berlin against Bekele, and Bekele had a 14 percent carb solution. Those are extremely high solutions! Anything higher than 9-10 percent, as researched by sports scientists, will be hard to digest, and will more than likely lead to throwing up.

Kipsang has DNF'd twice due to stomach issues. Before that, he had never DNF'd or had any stomach issues. All I'm saying is that it is possible that the solution is not sitting well with him. That would not be far fetched, and it is something that has already been questioned.

Here is a paragraph taken from the article:

" Andrew Bosch, a professor of sports science and physiology at the University of Cape Town, believes that 9 to 10% is the tolerable percentage of sugar in a drink for an individual and if you go higher, the runner is likely to throw up. The drink that Bekele was taking was 14% carbohydrates and Kipsang used an 18% solution."

Also, note, these guys are experimenting with extremely high carb solutions, which could lead to health issues later on down the line. The high sugar intake is serious

Another excerpt: " (Note: In January’s Dubai Marathon, the Sub2 Project team was hoping to try a HIGHER DOSAGE of the drink with Bekele. Due to a crowded start and an unfortunate fall, Bekele was slightly injured at the start and dropped out of the race. His world record attempt will have to wait for next month’s marathon in London.)"

Once you start running with that stuff in your stomach, and it is not sitting well, there will be problems. I'm not sure if Dibaba is taking the same thing, but we saw Dibaba in 2017 London stop and throw-up after taking in her drink, and was slowed down for about 2 mins. She was able to shake it off, but it cost her a lot of time. ..

If these runners are having issues with the drink during a race, they are not going to say it or admit it, because they are under contract. So seeing Kipsang DNF due to stomach issues, and losing pace in Berlin, where Bekele caught him, it just makes you wonder.

Years ago these runners weren't taken that crap, and it wasn't needed. To me, the reason why Lelisa sucked so badly in breaking 2 is because nike put him on that carb solution crap. Before that, he had never ingested in carb drinks. He was just taking in water.

Like I said, a person does not just pop up with stomach issues all of sudden when never, ever having a history of it. A lot of these runners are freaking lab rats with that crap, and no telling what type of solutions they are experimenting with.

Let's just hope Kip can have a race with no stomach issues, and that he has not been ruined.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

In order to be the goat, there can be no negatives against you.

This is obviously false. Someone has to be the goat, and everyone has negatives against them.

Do you really think the athletes would still be training with them if they gave them gi issues? You can't really be that dense... Sure they are under contract, but if something isn't working out with a product, no way in hell they are going to use it and risk loosing a race because of it. Kipsang DNF in Berlin because of pace and weather, not carbs, he went off on a suicidal pace just as the others. As for Didaba, afaik she does not use maurten but I guess you blame them either way?

Let me ask you this, what would it take for you to believe that the drink actually helps? Maurten isn't a big company yet they've landed the biggest marathoners in the world, and Nike and NOP are notorious for testing everything out. Galen closed Chicago crazy fast, and perhaps this drink helped him. So what would it take? wr by Kipsang or Kipchoge?

I just posted an article about it, and factual scientific research on it, and how the solution is a dangerous amount, and on how runners are EXPERIMENTING with different mixtures.

But that's the problem with the world until its an epidemic, and then concern is put forth. However, you can't say that you DIDN't know or that you were not informed, because you were.

use it and risk losing a race? What do you think they do with PEDS, and how it affects their body later on down the road, and how they put their race career at risk?

But hey consumers will be consumer and will continue to consume any and everything. SO CONTINUE CONSUMING.

oh, yeah, and on Galen's run. This is what he did afterwards:

" Right after finishing in Prague, Rupp vomited a substantial amount. However, his coach, Alberto Salazar, says Rupp didn’t suffer a significant digestive issue. “Galen had no stomach problems in Prague until he chugged his last 10-ounce drink at the 40K mark, and then felt it sloshing around in the last 800 meters,” reports Salazar, who says Rupp will continue to use the drink."

But we know for a fact Alberto lies in interviews and about the health of his runners, which we are seeing now with the chicago marathon.

Also, this: "Ross Tucker, Ph.D., the widely quoted principal at The Science of Sport, has noted that Maurten’s elite runners WERE ALREADY SUPER FAST BEFORE THEY BEGAN USING THE DRINK. Indeed, Kipchoge won six marathons in a row, including the Rio Olympic Marathon, before drinking Maurten in races."

So bull crap is not needed, runners were already fast before taking that liquid diabetes crap.

It's just another high sugary solution that is being pumped and promoted by a company, where athletes THINK that they need it to run fast.....which is crap.

Eat and drink real food, which a lot of those runners were doing before taking it.

I'm here posting articles, interviews, etc on it. Do some research, and see for yourself.

Kipchoge will run 2:01:55 on Sunday. He will totally skip the 2:02.

See you on Sunday

Scorpion_runner wrote:

i order to be the greatest off all time you have to be complete across the board.

You've contradicted yourself so many times in your last few posts I don't even know where to start. You said Kipsang is better because he beat Kipchoge while setting the WR. OK, but since that one loss Kipchoge has beaten Kipsang three times and has also bettered Kipsang's PR.

You also said that Kipsang is better because he's won a tough course (NYC). But you also said Geb is better, even though he ran horrible on anything other than flat courses. Kipchoge's PR is also nearly a minute faster than Geb's. And just because Geb broke the WR twice doesn't mean he's better than Geb. Khalid Khannouchi also broke the world record twice, does that make him better than Kipchoge?

Kipchoge simply has the best resume in history of the sport. Just look at this:

3x London champ

2x Berlin champ

Chicago champ

Olympic champ

2:03:05 PR

Also wins at Rotterdam and Hamburg

1 loss in his entire career, finishing 2nd to Kipsang at Berlin

Sure he's never run Boston or NYC, or set a WR. But no Boston/NYC champ, or WR holder, has a better resume than that. Kipchoge is the GOAT.

You are right. And running fans know it. Excited to watch the GOAT this weekend, win or lose.

Scorpion_Runner,

What excellent analysis. Kipsang is an extremely accomplished athlete, and if he grabs his 2nd WR (again in a race against Kipchoge), there is significant evidence that he could be considered the GOAT.

I wrote almost the exact same points in an email to LetsRun, explaining how poorly the Men's Preview does any "Preview"-ing at all. It's a fluff piece for Kipchoge, giving excuses for why he doesn't have the WR. Well, someone could write a fluff piece about all the reasons Kipsang got DNFs and lost to Kipchoge more times than he won, but that race-by-race analysis is really for a GOAT discussion.

Instead, the *Men's Preview* should have been a look at the elite talent, where their fitness is (the finishes of last couple races), where they've said they're at in preparation, and any extenuating circumstances relevant to the specific course of this WMM. (Look to the Women's Preview or past Men's Previews for examples of well-done analysis).

You could rank Eliud #1 (I would), but to ignore Kipsang and other talent is disheartening. Why do we read LetsRun Previews, if not to learn more about the elites, where their storylines are, get reminders of where their fitness is at--so the race has more drama to it when it happens. This race with Kipchoge/Kipsang is Ali-Frazier in possibly one of their final bouts, or Messi/Ronaldo. #1 and #2 GOATs in alot of people's books, going at it. There's drama in this race, but LetsRun has let us down by printing a fluff piece of 1 runner!

Kipchoge beat Kipsang twice already, in London 2015 and 2016, but that's the only injury free strong competitor he faced so far ... maybe Biwott is another one, but he wasn't that strong.

Yes, Kipchoge needs to get an official WR in order to be considered the greatest ever. Breaking2 was a gimmick that might be equal to a 2:03 on a regular course with regular pacers. It might even be worst if you consider that he ran in those Nike shoes that help run 3-4% faster.

If Kipchoge gets the WR running in those Nike shoes, is it cheating?

nameee wrote:

I wrote almost the exact same points in an email to LetsRun, explaining how poorly the Men's Preview does any "Preview"-ing at all. It's a fluff piece for Kipchoge, giving excuses for why he doesn't have the WR.

You must be a big hit at parties.

musclessfitness wrote:

Yes, Kipchoge needs to get an official WR in order to be considered the greatest ever.

No he doesn't. He's consistently beaten the best marathoners of the best era (marathon times still getting faster even though 5000m/10000m times have stabilized). And it isn't as if he has run slow times. The idea that he'd be GOAT only if his marathon PR was 10s faster, when there are so many variables that come into play in the few number of marathons you are able to run, is laughable.

If Kipsang wins in a WR, he'll be top 5.

george oscar bluth wrote:

musclessfitness wrote:

Yes, Kipchoge needs to get an official WR in order to be considered the greatest ever.

If Kipsang wins in a WR, he'll be top 5.

Now this is retarded, as if Kipsang isn't already top 5.

If Kipsang beats Kipchoge and grabs the WR at the same time, that would be twice that he has beaten kipchoge while breaking the WR. twice!

That is automatic GOAT status, hands down.

Plus this:

- The only man to run 2:03 4 times

- Bronze Olympic marathon medal

- 10 marathon victories !

- WR

- beat his peers

- went undefeated on the marathon level from frankfurt 2010 to the end of the 2014 marathon season.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

george oscar bluth wrote:

If Kipsang wins in a WR, he'll be top 5.

Now this is retarded, as if Kipsang isn't already top 5.

If Kipsang beats Kipchoge and grabs the WR at the same time, that would be twice that he has beaten kipchoge while breaking the WR. twice!

That is automatic GOAT status, hands down.

Plus this:

- The only man to run 2:03 4 times

- Bronze Olympic marathon medal

- 10 marathon victories !

- WR

- beat his peers

- went undefeated on the marathon level from frankfurt 2010 to the end of the 2014 marathon season.

Do you follow the sport? He was 5th in London in 2013 and 3rd in London Olympics in 2012. You're losing any shred of credibility you had.

Banana Bread wrote:

I'm mostly looking forward to Amsterdam

I’m literally expecting bekele to literally drop out with another lame excuse - literally

musclessfitness wrote:

Kipchoge beat Kipsang twice already, in London 2015 and 2016, but that's the only injury free strong competitor he faced so far ... maybe Biwott is another one, but he wasn't that strong.

Yes, Kipchoge needs to get an official WR in order to be considered the greatest ever. Breaking2 was a gimmick that might be equal to a 2:03 on a regular course with regular pacers. It might even be worst if you consider that he ran in those Nike shoes that help run 3-4% faster.

If Kipchoge gets the WR running in those Nike shoes, is it cheating?

Lol the Kipchoge haters in this thread are a trip. He can't be the GOAT because he hasn't faced any strong runners? In London 2015 he faced Kipsang who was just coming off a marathon streak of WR at Berlin, CR at London, and a win in NYC. He also faced Kimetto who was just coming off CRs in Tokyo, Chicago, and Berlin (the last of course being the WR). Kipsang and Kimetto were arguably two of the greatest marathoners in history at that point, and Kipchoge beat them both.

Also, if you really believe those shoes make people run 3-4% faster, then Nike has done their job.

george oscar bluth wrote:

Scorpion_runner wrote:

Now this is retarded, as if Kipsang isn't already top 5.

If Kipsang beats Kipchoge and grabs the WR at the same time, that would be twice that he has beaten kipchoge while breaking the WR. twice!

That is automatic GOAT status, hands down.

Plus this:

- The only man to run 2:03 4 times

- Bronze Olympic marathon medal

- 10 marathon victories !

- WR

- beat his peers

- went undefeated on the marathon level from frankfurt 2010 to the end of the 2014 marathon season.

Do you follow the sport? He was 5th in London in 2013 and 3rd in London Olympics in 2012. You're losing any shred of credibility you had.

You're right. I forgot about those 2 london races.

Uh, people are running 5 and 6 min PRs in those shoes, so yes people are using less energy while running in those shoes.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

dude what wrote:

Lol the Kipchoge haters in this thread are a trip. He can't be the GOAT because he hasn't faced any strong runners? In London 2015 he faced Kipsang who was just coming off a marathon streak of WR at Berlin, CR at London, and a win in NYC. He also faced Kimetto who was just coming off CRs in Tokyo, Chicago, and Berlin (the last of course being the WR). Kipsang and Kimetto were arguably two of the greatest marathoners in history at that point, and Kipchoge beat them both.

Also, if you really believe those shoes make people run 3-4% faster, then Nike has done their job.

Uh, people are running 5 and 6 min PRs in those shoes, so yes people are using less energy while running in those shoes.

Which people? Average Joes? Again, if you believe that those 5-6 min PRs are just because of those shoes, then Nike has done a FANTASTIC job at marketing them.