Eliud PEDchoge wrote:
El Keniano wrote:
Just no. Boston, especially, is slipping in the prestige stakes. I say attack the WR in Berlin and hope for good weather.
This.
Nobody outside US cares about US marathons.
Mostly true
Eliud PEDchoge wrote:
El Keniano wrote:
Just no. Boston, especially, is slipping in the prestige stakes. I say attack the WR in Berlin and hope for good weather.
This.
Nobody outside US cares about US marathons.
Mostly true
When guys run Boston or Ny or Chicago you accuse them of ducking the big dogs in Berlin and London. When they run Berlin and London you say they should be doing Boston or Ny or Chicago. Cra cra.
Elood wrote:
You had some decent points but you really lost me at the end:
"if Eliud was in Boston, in spite of the conditions, he could win very easy, since already showed, in all his career, to be competitive with every kind of weather and on every type of surface."
No, just no. His only "challenging" marathons were in the wet and heat. Happens in many marathons. Boston was a 40F rain soaked affair with 25mph headwinds ( causing sub-freezing wind chill levels) at many points. He is 90% DNF'ing.
How does one 90% DNF?
I assume you meant he is 90% likely to DNF. But from what do you conclude this? What weakness has he shown?
Furthermore, if he did run Boston next year or the year after, and won, but the conditions weren't as bad as 2018, would you congratulate him or say that the course wasn't "tough enough?" In other words, what guarantee could he have that if he ran Boston and won, you and all the other Boston fanboys would suppress your antiquated latent desires for American dominance long enough to finally recognize his greatness?
Take last yrs NYC. That NY combination of Kamworor, Kipsang, Berhanu, and Desisa easily surpasses what Berlin gets and many of them just barely beat Euro hobby joggers. Tough, unpaced courses is what separates the men from the boys and London can never offer that. Also, the alleged best woman Keitany ran that and got trounced. You poor buuthurt sods
London: for fun run wannabees
NY, Boston: for legends
Renato Canova wrote:
I don't know where are you from, but your opinion about the value of top marathons shows you don't know the reality of this sport in 2018.
Yes, Boston is the most "historical" marathon, and the oldest in the World.
I had athletes winning there in the past in both Men and Women (Elijah Lagat, Rita Jeptoo still clean, Selina Kosgei) and the fastest debutant ever (Moses Mosop in 2011), and I like that race : it's part of the athletic history. However, this is something "emotional", but technically speaking, Boston is very far from marathons like London or Chicago.
Also NY has a big tradition, but today is very far from the level of London.
London has the biggest budget, and can offer the highest appearance fees for having the best athletes. Has the best organization, with a pool of professionals working for the next edition from the day after the race, every year. Has on its side a full Nation (the starter was the UK Queen !) and an amazing participation of the local people. Every year, puts together the 80% of the top runner in the World, and for that reason we can consider London as the REAL world Championship on yearly basis.
If you go to see the names of the winners in the Major in the last 15 years, you can see that London NEVER had as winner some athlete not at the top in the World (last year only Daniel Wanjiru was an episode, because of the non participation of Eliud looking at Breaking 2). Instead, some of the winners of the other Majors are good athletes only, but not top champions, and also Kawauchi belongs to this category.
The race in Boston this year was epic, such as a stage of Tour de France with 5 mountains and 35 C of temperature, or of Giro d'Italia with snow and ice, in the mountains, and 80% of the participants dropping out (1956, when Charlie Gaul was the winner), and I understand that the show was very emotional and can be the best for spectators not used to know athletics. However, to think that Eliud needs to win NY or Boston for showing he's the best, is something clearly ridiculous.
In the athletic history, NEVER some marathon runner was able to win 9 marathons of 10 started, including Olympics and Majors like London, Berlin and Chicago.
Eliud, till when can maintain this level, is by far unbeatable in any condition, and is stronger than Sammy Wanjiru or every best of the past. His continuity and the level of dominance is amazing, and never there was something similar. Probably an athlete like Geoffrey Mutai edition 2011 could compete with the current Kipchoge, but was able to last one year only at that level. About the Ethiopians, sometimes there is one able to run very fast (yesterday Guye Adola, today Shura Kitata), but nobody, after Tsegaye Kebede, was/is able to show some continuity.
To compare Rupp and Kipchoge is a pure exercise of imagination : speaking about marathon, they are so far that is not possible to speak about any "duel" if, anf when, they can meet. The gap of Eliud with every other runner in the World is so big that there are no external conditions able to change the final result : if Eliud was in Boston, in spite of the conditions, he could win very easy, since already showed, in all his career, to be competitive with every kind of weather and on every type of surface.
Simply, he is the best EVER speaking about marathon, and this because NOBODY had the same mental strength, and the same continuity in focus, in all the athletic history.
Actually, as long as there are not freak weather conditions like what occurred in Boston this year, I believe that Kipchoge would easily win NY/Boston with an unmatchable, maintained surge in the 2nd half of the race. After a 1:01 first half in hot-ish condition and some slow splits after 30k, Kipchoge seemed to tire of being followed by Kitata and just busted out a few faster miles very late in the race and decisively took the victory. He is probably the only runner that could pick up the pace like that at such a late stage of a marathon when already running 2:04 pace. The only people I believe that are capable of beating Kipchoge in a championship style marathon are the Geoffreys (Kirui and Kamworor).
What he has achieved with the competitiveness of the mosern marathon is simply remarkable and unparalleled.
Who has run 2:02?
All he needs to do now is set a new WR in Berlin.
What do you mean by "real" marathons?
At this point, who else is the GOAT if it’s not Kipchoge?
Also, it would be nice but not necessary for him to do NYC or Boston. He already has the most important unpaced victory under his belt. All others are fluff.
I’d say a WR does elude Kipchoge. Id like to see him at least get one. It’s crazy to think he’s never gotten one WR, yet Geb has 27. Geb = all-time distance GOAT
vivalarepublica wrote:
We know Kipchoge is unbeatable in these paced marathon parades. He only has won one unpaced marathon, the Rio Olympic marathon, which had watered-down competition.
It's high time that he pays a visit to New York this fall and wins a real marathon rather than these glorified parades. Get on it, NYRR.
Now he doesn't. He already has the respect of all the other marathoners.
Gwalkerruns wrote:
When guys run Boston or Ny or Chicago you accuse them of ducking the big dogs in Berlin and London. When they run Berlin and London you say they should be doing Boston or Ny or Chicago. Cra cra.
Bull$hit. You're making up arguments only a handful of retards even fake belief in.
A great marathon is course + environment / weather + spectators and Boston & NYC will always be tops; spare me Chicago in this case, there's more people on any given mile in Brooklyn than their entire damn course.
If flat barren pacer battles are your bag, fine, but they're also death for the sport's already barely existent fans.
FFF wrote:
Who has run 2:02?
Rupp's virtual 2:03 is close.
everyone has a different opinion on this one.
end of thread
(i'll share my opinion: i'd do berlin or london or chicago if i were him. the others are a joke and only have nostalgia and history going for them.)
Glorfindel wrote:
I Am Sam wrote:
Snip/////Snip
All the majors effectively time trials. Has he ever had to duel and make multiple surges , especially last third of race?
Just because he has a different racing strategy says nothing about his skill. Kipchoge doesn't care about surges and tactics, he just goes out hard and dares anyone to follow him. Remind you of someone?
GOAT means greatest of all time, but you are talking about a guy that has been the greatest since 2014, in the marathon, and especially only at time trials or less competitive marathons (yes Rio OG)
The marathon is not a time trial, we can all have great park run PBs , the marathon is a race. Expand your knowledge of history.
Look at his splits, it seems he is 'kicking away' at end, but he is either one paced (TT style) or off slower starts. There is no equivalent to a 2:47 31st km as Wanjiru did at London. There is no equivalent to Wanjiru's Beijing race in any OG, there is no equivalent to Wanjiru vs Kebede.
Have a look at guys like 'Deek' in the 80s,
WR at Fukuoka standing for 3 yrs (something EK does not have), going toe to toe with Ikaangaa and Shihanga over Brisbane's bridges to win CG marathon, toe to toe with Salazar and Lopes (after wiping the crap off his arse with a sponge...reminder not to use that stuff) to win Rotterdam, winning Boston in a course record.
He is not the only guy too.
Arguing about GOAT with such a narrow focus is nonsense, Bekele has two untouchable WR s and so many XC titles one can't even count (and a faster marathon time than EK)
etc etc etc
Well, he can bring his own personal pacers... LOL
Test
Ny ny wrote:
Take last yrs NYC. That NY combination of Kamworor, Kipsang, Berhanu, and Desisa easily surpasses what Berlin gets and many of them just barely beat Euro hobby joggers. Tough, unpaced courses is what separates the men from the boys and London can never offer that. Also, the alleged best woman Keitany ran that and got trounced. You poor buuthurt sods
That's a really bad example: as you probably know, last year, Kipsang ran NYC as a backup, after he could not keep up with the pace in Berlin. Meanwhile, Berlin had a fresh Kipsang, Bekele and Kipchoge. Kamworor had a breakthrough as a marathoner in New York, but it was also his first major marathon since 2013 (which he ran in Berlin, as he did in 2012).
NYC and especially Boston have a really strong appeal among hobby runners - and that's not insignificant, I am sure top 100 on either the men's or women's side is tougher in Boston than in Berlin. The women's elite field in NYC also tends to be really strong, but the men's elite field in NYC has not quite been up there with Berlin, and certainly not with London. Boston, meanwhile seems to have focused on American narratives - that's fine (and the resurgence of American distance running is great!), but it's not that relevant on a world stage.
Renato Canova wrote:
I don't know where are you from, but your opinion about the value of top marathons shows you don't know the reality of this sport in 2018.
Yes, Boston is the most "historical" marathon, and the oldest in the World.
I had athletes winning there in the past in both Men and Women (Elijah Lagat, Rita Jeptoo still clean, Selina Kosgei) and the fastest debutant ever (Moses Mosop in 2011), and I like that race : it's part of the athletic history. However, this is something "emotional", but technically speaking, Boston is very far from marathons like London or Chicago.
Also NY has a big tradition, but today is very far from the level of London.
London has the biggest budget, and can offer the highest appearance fees for having the best athletes. Has the best organization, with a pool of professionals working for the next edition from the day after the race, every year. Has on its side a full Nation (the starter was the UK Queen !) and an amazing participation of the local people. Every year, puts together the 80% of the top runner in the World, and for that reason we can consider London as the REAL world Championship on yearly basis.
If you go to see the names of the winners in the Major in the last 15 years, you can see that London NEVER had as winner some athlete not at the top in the World (last year only Daniel Wanjiru was an episode, because of the non participation of Eliud looking at Breaking 2). Instead, some of the winners of the other Majors are good athletes only, but not top champions, and also Kawauchi belongs to this category.
The race in Boston this year was epic, such as a stage of Tour de France with 5 mountains and 35 C of temperature, or of Giro d'Italia with snow and ice, in the mountains, and 80% of the participants dropping out (1956, when Charlie Gaul was the winner), and I understand that the show was very emotional and can be the best for spectators not used to know athletics. However, to think that Eliud needs to win NY or Boston for showing he's the best, is something clearly ridiculous.
In the athletic history, NEVER some marathon runner was able to win 9 marathons of 10 started, including Olympics and Majors like London, Berlin and Chicago.
Eliud, till when can maintain this level, is by far unbeatable in any condition, and is stronger than Sammy Wanjiru or every best of the past. His continuity and the level of dominance is amazing, and never there was something similar. Probably an athlete like Geoffrey Mutai edition 2011 could compete with the current Kipchoge, but was able to last one year only at that level. About the Ethiopians, sometimes there is one able to run very fast (yesterday Guye Adola, today Shura Kitata), but nobody, after Tsegaye Kebede, was/is able to show some continuity.
To compare Rupp and Kipchoge is a pure exercise of imagination : speaking about marathon, they are so far that is not possible to speak about any "duel" if, anf when, they can meet. The gap of Eliud with every other runner in the World is so big that there are no external conditions able to change the final result : if Eliud was in Boston, in spite of the conditions, he could win very easy, since already showed, in all his career, to be competitive with every kind of weather and on every type of surface.
Simply, he is the best EVER speaking about marathon, and this because NOBODY had the same mental strength, and the same continuity in focus, in all the athletic history.
I'll ignore that one little bit otherwise I agree with you. But you do have to admit that going by the women's times in Boston, Kawauchi's time was actually quite good.
Thighs & Puddin wrote:
Gwalkerruns wrote:
When guys run Boston or Ny or Chicago you accuse them of ducking the big dogs in Berlin and London. When they run Berlin and London you say they should be doing Boston or Ny or Chicago. Cra cra.
Bull$hit. You're making up arguments only a handful of retards even fake belief in.
A great marathon is course + environment / weather + spectators and Boston & NYC will always be tops; spare me Chicago in this case, there's more people on any given mile in Brooklyn than their entire damn course.
If flat barren pacer battles are your bag, fine, but they're also death for the sport's already barely existent fans.
I think London gets the most support and has the best atmosphere in my opinion. Plus the course is iconic, has great scenery and is conducive to fast times. The weather is usually fine also.