The Science of Sex Verification and Athletic Performance
Ross Tucker and Malcolm Collins
http://journals.humankinetics.com/AcuCustom/Sitename/Documents/DocumentItem/18202.pdf
International Journal of Sports Physiology and Performance, 2010, 5, 127-139 © Human Kinetics, Inc.
This is like someone saying "oh I cant work here? Why not cause I have blue hair?"......"NO you cant work here because you dont meet certain parameters established."
That is essentially what was agreed upon in court with Caster and all hermaphrodytes, to be eligible to "work here" any hermaphrodite who has male hormones and male level testosterone has to be on female hormones. There is nothing discriminatory about this. Caster's behavior even exemplifies that she identifies as a man, so wow Caster's getting a sweet deal getting to make money beating up on the women. This is absurd. Cheating athletes on drugs have been banned for unnaturally high levels of naturally occuring elements so this is no different.
We wouldnt allow a sex changed man to woman race women in track? Why not? Because they wouldnt fit in the parameters of what's established. So lets all turn our brains back on and push for the arbitration of sport to reverse their decision of reversing the original decision of not making hermaphrodite athletes take female hormones if they want to "work here". Otherwise........you're fired!
I do run run run wrote:
We wouldnt allow a sex changed man to woman race women in track? Why not? Because they wouldnt fit in the parameters of what's established.
Wrong.
If a man identifes as a woman and has taken testosterone lowering meds for a year he can run in a women's race. Doesn't matter if his D and balls slap around. Any male runner, e.g. Mo Farah, can decide to run as a female.
Can you show proof of that? Because thats very different from a hermaphrodite. Everything I've read shows that no if they were born a man (no genetic mutations making it up for debate) you cannot compete as a woman no matter what. The hormones is for hermaphrodytes, people who have chosen to live as male or female because they are essentially both. That was the ruling on Caster that they arbitrarily reversed. If the actual women competitors were up in arms the first time the Caster show came around they need to protest together this time. Its the only thing thats going to work. Its decisions like these that are going to kill what is left of track. Noone will pay to sponsor it, to showcase it on a professional level except to sell athletic wear.
There were threads about this earlier on in the year. It is publicly available information.
The Court of Arbitration for sport ruled during a case about an Indian sprinter called Dutee Chand that the IAAF has no right to decide what gender an athlete is, cannot force gender testing on an athlete and that high natural testosterone levels do not have a clear performance enhancing effect.
Following this ruling the IOC decided that an athlete doesn't have to be recognised in their home country as the gender they wish to compete as. No gender reassignment operation is required to compete and only one year of hormone therapy is required for male to female gender reassigned athletes.
Dutee Chand cleared to race as IAAF suspends 'gender test' rules -
What needs to happen is in say the 800m Final all the other women agree to a protest. I would suggest let Caster set off on her own then finish the race. When she has finished all then race for Silver Bronze. After race all lift Silver Medalist in air on their shoulders. When giving medals walk off after getting Silver.
Or during race someone accidentally takes Caster out with a shove etc. Trouble with this is a drug cheat could still win it?
Athletics is getting dangerously close to people losing interest in all but hobby jogging. The elite end is riddled with cheats. Would you want your child being an elite athlete only to be shafted time and again by cheating scum.?
The press and media hype up these so called stars. Even calling the clean athletes for flopping against them. What is the point in trying to race clean?
The athletes who are clean must lose millions in revenue, lost medals lost records. It is a disgrace. You either need to say all cheat, or have drug tests daily. If you are an unusual case like Caster you should be in the Special Olympics or compete with men.
Anyone who competes in an Olympic games and is caught cheating should be flogged on live TV. Zero tolerance. Their coaches flogged and banned from the sport.. Their families stripped of any financial gains.
This topic is a lot more complex than some of the posters are admitting, from both a scientific and social perspective. And this isn't like athletes with prosthetic limbs where it is considered socially acceptable to have special competitions for them. Well, maybe it will be one day?
In the meantime the only alternatives are you let them run or ban them. Then they sue the IAAF, go to CAS etc.
Ok I see the recent decision but what it says is they have to show not only that theyve been on female hormones for atleast a year but that their testosterone levels have actually been below the agreed levels for over a year. This is another terrible decision as again this has nothing to do with discrimination. This is about what is naturally accepted as fair and it is no different than the residual affects of taking drugs. "Oh you doped youre a cheater youre banned". "Oh but I stopped taking them so im all good now". "Ok youre back in". NO! This is not how it works. This is an even worse decision than it being just about hermaphrodytes because a transgender man to woman is literally born a full man with way more potential muscle mass, testosterone and hgh in their system from birth. I call total b u l l s h i t. Just another decision that will only add to the irrelevance that track is becoming. Results and records will be meaningless when put into context. Women athletes need to do something to boycott these decisions or any natural women will have no honest chance. But what can we expect from a sport that protects cheating dopers and throws honest athletes under the bus.
So Semenya has internal testes, no womb, no ovaries and we are supposed to pretend he is on the same level as female competitors.
Has anyone seen female athletes sit like this?
If he wins Olympic gold this will be scandalous.
LOL looks like he belongs on the start of the men's 100m http://image.vam.synacor.com.edgesuite.net/04/46/0446f314234ad9413a1795643fde19836b03edb7/h=300/?app=portal&sig=51bb5d0af651d7aec4a10085af72a45b1861319cd3f8649845ba7095250d4d73
The Scot wrote:
In the meantime the only alternatives are you let them run or ban them. Then they sue the IAAF, go to CAS etc.
That's mor BS. CAS is an arbitration court and IOC is free to recognize its jurisdiction or not.
tired of apologists wrote:
The Scot wrote:In the meantime the only alternatives are you let them run or ban them. Then they sue the IAAF, go to CAS etc.
That's mor BS. CAS is an arbitration court and IOC is free to recognize its jurisdiction or not.
Not quite true. From their website:
The CAS has the task of resolving legal disputes in the field of sport through arbitration. It does this pronouncing arbitral awards that have the same enforceability as judgements of ordinary Âcourts.
So the court resolves the disputes by looking at the legal standings of the individuals of the case. If they rule in your favour, it is because there are relevant (international?) laws that support you. I'm guessing this particular case is related to human rights laws? Either way, this ruling cannot be ignored.
Here's some background information. The T level ranges for adults according to healthline.com are:
Male 270-1070 ng/dl (up to 1200 as adolescent)
Female 15-70 ng/dl (up to 75 in adolescence)
I've read somewhere that some top female athletes have T levels in the 90s, but I can't find a source right now.
The IOC rules allow intersex athletes to have a T level of 10 nm/L, or roughly 288 ng/dl. That's FOUR TIMES HIGHER than the normal range for women.
The reason there is no clinical proof of T levels conveying a performance boost in intersex athletes is that intersex is so rare that it would be impossible to put together a valid clinical study. Even within intersex, there are other confounding variables that could invalidate a study. Plus, how could you find enough intersex athletes AND convince them to participate in a study that would most likely result in banning them from sport?
Further, there have been several comments about Semenya having to take female hormones. The ruling says only that intersex must take hormone therapy. I'm pretty sure that hormone therapy in this case is a testosterone inhibitor, not just more female hormones.
Wow thank you for including this. This proves how out of sync the sport is with any rational position. Track is a raw individual performance sport, which makes it that more obvious when the rules are out of touch. and your point about having inconclusive numbers is exactly the point. Whoever said testosterone has no bearing on performance is making it up as they go. Its one of the primary reasons men are way stronger and faster than women.
I sincerely hope if track & field has any hope of recovering some of its reputation on the professional level that the women will boycott these disastrous decisions.
You mean only gender reassigned athletes have to undergo hormone therapy. As in a biologically born male now competing as female.
Semenya is intersex and no longer has to take any hormone therapy, hence the amazing improvement this year.
I do run run run wrote:
Wow thank you for including this. This proves how out of sync the sport is with any rational position. Track is a raw individual performance sport, which makes it that more obvious when the rules are out of touch. and your point about having inconclusive numbers is exactly the point. Whoever said testosterone has no bearing on performance is making it up as they go. Its one of the primary reasons men are way stronger and faster than women.
I sincerely hope if track & field has any hope of recovering some of its reputation on the professional level that the women will boycott these disastrous decisions.
It's more complicated than that. The condition Semenya has is Androgen Hyperinsensitivty Syndrome. So by definition her body does not react the same way to testosterone as others (insensitive). Essentislly the court said there is no evidence that the extra testosterone in women with this condtion gives them an advantage, which is true (but like the other guy said is more down to it being difficult to carry out a proper study).
The IAAF has to prove that athletes like Semenya are at an advantage over the other female athletes if they want their testosterone rules reinstated. Which is difficult, at least until Semenya drops a 1:50 lol. If they cannot do so by a certain date this year then the rules will be scrapped indefinitely.
Metric Miler wrote:
You mean only gender reassigned athletes have to undergo hormone therapy. As in a biologically born male now competing as female.
Semenya is intersex and no longer has to take any hormone therapy, hence the amazing improvement this year.
You're correct. Thanks for clarifying this.
Outward appearances don't show that Semenya is insensitive to testosterone. I'm guessing PAIS, and should have been raised as a boy.
Nothing a good high school boy can't do.
This has been a cluster for ever. No way she should be allowed to race in women's events. The pC view has stolen legitimate qualifiers opportunities and medals.
Same with Pistorius, and the long jumper they're trying to integrate now. They seem to equate this sort of exclusion as similar to the old white guys preventing women and blacks from joining their country clubs, but it has no parallel.
Curious to see how our "friends" at NBC will play this on their Rio broadcast. It can't be pleasing to their advertisers to show this guy sweeping and being the top "human interest" story of the Olys. It's all about the $$. Maybe Caitlin can contribute some insights.
