8 UK athletes (inc. Farah) release blood test data

1) Other people have posted his improvement in the 3/5 and the annual jumps are not crazy.

2) I consider the 1500m in Monaco an outlier, fluctuation, or a anomaly (take your pick). They are running significantly faster here than anywhere else on the circuit. I am not necessarily saying anything about "trampoline" effects, but MF would never would not dip under 3:30 anywhere else in the world, I don' t think.

3) Admitted. This is of course no a particularly good argument.

reader of the forums wrote:

There isn't less doping going on. Recent events have mad that clear.

Have you ever seen the all-time lists in the:

Women's Sprints

Women's Jumps

Men and Women's Throws

There is just one woman who has made a mark in the top 150 all-time shot put list during this century, and that was Ostapchuk, who everyone knew was dirty and was finally caught in 2012.

Doping is not what it once was.

some proof reading seems necessary:)

What people don't understand is that Mo Farah does not need to use EPO.

Kara Goucher called it "Albertos Gimmicks" but training in Oregon at sea level but at the same time living in a pressurized house at 8,000 feet gives you the best of both worlds. Live high, train low, they say. No need for EPO.

The Kenyans can't compete with that, so they need to alternate high/low training and have to "supp" a bit when they're "low".

I watched Mo week in week out at British Milers Club events, British League, 12 stage, 6 stage, national events, for the best part of 10 years. He was always around the top 5 fastest times but he was by no means outstanding or exceptional. He definitely didn't show signs of being the 'greatest distance runner in history' and I've seen a lot of runners in these events and I would say that until age 27/28 he was comparable with people like Rob Denmark, Eamon Martin, Gary Staines, 13.10-15 guys and that's pretty much what he was.

Anybody else remember Ritzenheins sudden ridiculous improvement in that Golden League 5k?!

jeff tallon wrote:

Its strange that he went from not having a kick,to suddenly having one of the most devestating kicks in the history of the sport.Also strange that he suddenly improved,to go with that kick.Still,even without drugs he'd still be a super gifted athlete,probably able to do a 3.37 1500,13.10 5000,and sub 28 10'000 metres.

Mo did not suddenly develop a kick unless in your dictionary "suddenly" means gradually over 6 years.

Compare his Diamond League performance in Gothenberg in 2006, where he looks like a wounded giraffe over the last 400 meters, to his indoor 3000 m British record in 2009, where is showing the first signs of a kick, to the last 200 meters in the 2010 Euros where he blows away the competition. It's a gradual improvement through hard work and much improved form.

A good kick has nothing to do with EPO and his upper body strength had not improved over those 4 years. The strength work he did with Salazar was the icing on the cake.

Desperate to believe wrote:

1) So the standard for abnormal performance improvements after the age of 28 in a previously mid-pack runner is whether or not they are faster than the two greatest in history? Seems reasonable

You might want to check the all time indoor 2 mile list btw.

2) pre-28 : never better than 6th in 11 years of racing at world level

Post-28 : unbeatable 5x World and Olympic gold medals in 5 and 10. 8th fastest man in history over 1500m

Seems like a pretty smooth progression to me. No late career step change that I can see

3) ok so to get this one straight smiley people don't dope?

You never met Marion Jones then I take it?

Remember that Mo is facing a competition that is significantly weaker than the 90s/00s. No Geb, no Kenny, no Tadesse, no Sihine, no Kipchoge etc.

Britisher wrote:

I watched Mo week in week out at British Milers Club events, British League, 12 stage, 6 stage, national events, for the best part of 10 years. He was always around the top 5 fastest times but he was by no means outstanding or exceptional. He definitely didn't show signs of being the 'greatest distance runner in history' and I've seen a lot of runners in these events and I would say that until age 27/28 he was comparable with people like Rob Denmark, Eamon Martin, Gary Staines, 13.10-15 guys and that's pretty much what he was.

Anybody else remember Ritzenheins sudden ridiculous improvement in that Golden League 5k?!

Good points. All those British guys you mention (around the 13.10 mark) have 1500 pbs of around 3.38 - 3.40 (same as mo USED to be). None of them would have dreamt of knocking out a 15 in 3.28.

I think for those of us who have witnessed his progression first hand are the most stunned by all of this. He was destined to be very, very good from a young age, and probably best Brit for a generation.... But one of the greats, multiple world champion, being mentioned in the same breath as Geb and Bekele? No way.

yyy wrote:

1) Other people have posted his improvement in the 3/5 and the annual jumps are not crazy.

2) I consider the 1500m in Monaco an outlier, fluctuation, or a anomaly (take your pick). They are running significantly faster here than anywhere else on the circuit. I am not necessarily saying anything about "trampoline" effects, but MF would never would not dip under 3:30 anywhere else in the world, I don' t think.

3) Admitted. This is of course no a particularly good argument.

Perhaps everyone who is currently convinced of some strange magic makes-1500-easy-and-perhaps-800-but-not-other-events property to the Monaco track should wait to see if Kiprop decides to get frisky post Beijing. (Rieti?)

Britisher wrote:

I watched Mo week in week out at British Milers Club events, British League, 12 stage, 6 stage, national events, for the best part of 10 years. He was always around the top 5 fastest times but he was by no means outstanding or exceptional. He definitely didn't show signs of being the 'greatest distance runner in history' and I've seen a lot of runners in these events and I would say that until age 27/28 he was comparable with people like Rob Denmark, Eamon Martin, Gary Staines, 13.10-15 guys and that's pretty much what he was.

Anybody else remember Ritzenheins sudden ridiculous improvement in that Golden League 5k?!

So Farah going from 14:00 in 2002 to 13:09 in 2006 is not suspicious, but going from 13:09 down to 12:57 in 2010 is suspicious? And when did he start doping? Because he was already good for sub 13 when he joined Salazar.

The other guy! wrote:

What people don't understand is that Mo Farah does not need to use EPO.

Kara Goucher called it "Albertos Gimmicks" but training in Oregon at sea level but at the same time living in a pressurized house at 8,000 feet gives you the best of both worlds. Live high, train low, they say. No need for EPO.

The Kenyans can't compete with that, so they need to alternate high/low training and have to "supp" a bit when they're "low".

Nonsense, first you need to include Ethiopians. They are not all 'Kenyans' and the all time great were from Ethiopian. Which leads to the second point, his times are still behind what runners have done training at altitude and without tents. Finally if your method works so well why is Farah training at altitude!

As to all the talk of TUES well Mo does not have a thyroid TUE and use of an inhaler is not really going to give you the same benefit as EPO

They have nothing on him so far

Since the start of 2011, Mo has:

1. improved his 10k pb by 42s

2. Improved his 1500m pb by 5s, becoming the 8th fastest man EVER

3. Broken the 2 mile WR. Behind Farah at Numbers 2-5 in that all-time list are : Bekele, Gebreselaise, Kipchoge, El Guerrouj. You may recognise those names

None of the above have anything to do with any change in the current standard of competition. They are all down to a jump in Farahs performance at the age of 28.

I don't think you guys are giving enough respect to what he has accomplished over the last 4 years. His performances since 2011 are nothing short of remarkable.

Maybe maybe those guys dont have somalian genes ??

genetics wrote:

Maybe maybe those guys dont have somalian genes ??

Which only express themselves in your late 20s

Errrr wrote:

Since the start of 2011, Mo has:

1. improved his 10k pb by 42s

2. Improved his 1500m pb by 5s, becoming the 8th fastest man EVER

3. Broken the 2 mile WR. Behind Farah at Numbers 2-5 in that all-time list are : Bekele, Gebreselaise, Kipchoge, El Guerrouj. You may recognise those names

None of the above have anything to do with any change in the current standard of competition. They are all down to a jump in Farahs performance at the age of 28.

I don't think you guys are giving enough respect to what he has accomplished over the last 4 years. His performances since 2011 are nothing short of remarkable.

Also since 2011, he has run exactly two 10K's below 27:00, broke 12:55 in the 5K once (also at Monaco) and has not beaten his 7:34.47 best from an indoor 3K from 2009.

It was obvious in 2010 at the Euro champs that Farah was a man to dominate distance running on a global scale for the next half decade.

You could just see it in the way Mo out-kicked those giants of distance running: Chris Thompson, Daniele Meucci, Jesus Espana, Haile Ibrahimov. One of the greatest fields ever assembled in terms of finishing speed. Pretty sure most, if not all, of those guys had 3:50 (metric) mile speed or better.

The track in Atlanta 1996 was not good for LD but excellent for sprints.

just ask Geb and MD.

Presumably mo knows or has been told that the blood tests are normal

So he's conveniently hitching himself to this clean wagon

Still doesn't prove he didn't dope

ukathleticscoach wrote:

As to all the talk of TUES well Mo does not have a thyroid TUE and use of an inhaler is not really going to give you the same benefit as EPO

Nobody has a TUE for thyroid meds, because WADA does not require a TUE for thyroid meds.

This is not exactly a secret. Not everyone is happy about his:

Big development: US and UK anti doping have asked for WADA to ban synthetic thyroid meds!!!

When you get basic facts like this wrong, you lose credibility.