advocate of devils wrote:
corporate pr dept wrote:Par for the course I guess. LR poster thinks he knows better than one of the top runners in the world.
Geb, Bekele, El G, Komen, & Tergat train 7 days per week
They are all much faster than Lagat at 3000m and 5000m
Geb, Bekele, El G, Komen, & Tergat train 7 days per week. Joe, Frank, Bill and jack they all run 7 days 100mi per week train but they are much slower than Lagat as well as slower than Geb, Bekele, El G, Komen, & Tergat.
Now what ?
HardLoper wrote:
TAA wrote:Nitpicking here but, that 12:50 obviously wasn't the fastest El G could have run in 2003. At the World Champs he ran a 12:52 with a 53 last lap (1:52 last 800).
That wasn't world champs but he did run 12:53 with a 53 last lap, right behind Mo. I assume ventolin is only talking about 2006, Lagat could have gone much faster in 2011.
I was talking about El G in the 2003 World Champs 5k.
jjjjjjjjj wrote:Maybe Lagat's change in citizenship from Kenya leads to your underestimating him?
no
it was because bernie was already ole man river by '06
El G's one race doesn't mean that Lagat could not have ridden behind a low 12:40s guy the whole way in the proper race
not in '06 & almost certainly never
i really can't think of better than ~ slightly sub-12'50 for him, ever
If Gebremeskel can run mid 12:40s, maybe better, why not Lagat? After all, a 12:53 at least three years after his peak (2010-2007), in a 12:52 race does suggest much better in 2007 or even better in 2004-6.
they are nowhere like the same beast
that geb kid who ran 12'46 with only a barely adequate 4th km & then a 2'26 last km with a ~ 54.5 last lap with running wide in both bends, probably more like a 405m last lap, meaning ~ 53.8 if tight in lane 1, was very likely as quick as mo for basic speed
that means he was probably about 3'28 that day with advantage of doing that off 5k training & i reckon he couda gone 12'40 that day at even-pace
so, this kid probably had 3'28 speed & that is far beyond the bernie of '07 onwards
TAA wrote:Nitpicking here but, that 12:50 obviously wasn't the fastest El G could have run in 2003. At the World Champs he ran a 12:52 with a 53 last lap (1:52 last 800).
very true
a little disengenous of me
in ostrava, they went thru 3k in ~ 12'45 pace but hicham got terrified cherono was on his shoulder & slowed it to a crawl until last lap, where he still got his ass whupped in stretch !!!
hicham couda gone that 12'45 that day if he'd kept that 4th km going
however, i still maintain bernie has never been good enough to match that in his 5k career
You are right ventolin, exactly right. Bernard Lagat is one of the greatest competitors of all time. And a good man. Just not as fast as Bekele.
But you gotta love Mrr82's absolutely silly take, as always. Bernard HAD IT IN HIM to run 12:40. He didn't of course. But he had it in him. LOL.
You do realize that ventolin operates almost solely on the premise that athletes in the past "coulda" run various times because they "had it in them" even if they never did?
SMJO wrote:You do realize that ventolin operates almost solely on the premise that athletes in the past "coulda" run various times because they "had it in them" even if they never did?
eh ?
i'm claiming bernie coudn't have gone faster than 12'49 in his 12'59 with a 51.5 finish which had wide-bend running
do you see me claiming 12'40/12'42.5 for him that day ???
That wasn't the point.
i'm afraid your point, whatever you claim it seems to be in your befuddled mind is nonsense
i have only stated what i believe athletes past & present couda run if they had had their perfect race at their peaks
if you think those athletes or fans woudn't be interested in such a premise, then you are clearly clueless
ventolin^3 wrote:
i'm afraid your point, whatever you claim it seems to be in your befuddled mind is nonsense
i have only stated what i believe athletes past & present couda run if they had had their perfect race at their peaks
if you think those athletes or fans woudn't be interested in such a premise, then you are clearly clueless
You say Ryun coulda run 3:24, the other guy says Lagat coulda run 12:40.
Now tell me which one is befuddled?
SMJO wrote:You say Ryun coulda run 3:24, the other guy says Lagat coulda run 12:40.
Now tell me which one is befuddled?
the guy who is not befuddled enough to actually do some analysis
- one guy runs last 1200 on dirt track in 95F heat in region of 2'45.9 accounting for extra distance run wide on bends, well over 1s faster than hicham's last 1200 in his 3'27.85wc of '99 & only put in a hard effort from 300 - 400 & 1200 - 1500 in actual race, meaning 3'27.4 pace with above caveats
- the other guy who has run in some fast 5ks on circuit & not broken 12'53
you waste my time
The more absurd example is that you insist Rupp could be 12:4x even though he has never come close.
3'50 and silver medal 10k is close. Even though its not in the same training cycle.
Rupp-Certified Prediction wrote:The more absurd example is that you insist Rupp could be 12:4x even though he has never come close.
it appears you're clueless about this race :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAEtHwH-Phcmo said defiantly after that if he'd been in that race, he wouda won it, & he did whup 'em all few weeks later
by implication, his training partner who according to their coach, is similar in ability at all distances, shouda been right up in the mix or what do you think a 3'50i guy if he has his < < 27 endurance simultaneously shoud run for 5k ???
ventolin^3 wrote:
- one guy runs last 1200 on dirt track in 95F heat in region of 2'45.9 accounting for extra distance run wide on bends, well over 1s faster than hicham's last 1200 in his 3'27.85wc of '99 & only put in a hard effort from 300 - 400 & 1200 - 1500 in actual race, meaning 3'27.4 pace with above caveats
- the other guy who has run in some fast 5ks on circuit & not broken 12'53
you waste my time
The other guy is an actual 3;26 guy, a World Champion at 5k and beats someone who really has run 12:37.
If there is one thing you have, it's time to waste. Someone once did the math on one of your threads and came up with about an hour of typing and it was something you'd already said five or six times before.
SMJO wrote:The other guy is an actual 3;26 guy
err...
are you so clueless to bring up a clocking 5y before ???
he ran 3'29sb in '06 & that's why he beat kennster in a race which was 13'10 pace at the bell
a World Champion at 5k
not by '06
and beats someone who really has run 12:37
& who only managed 12'48sb in '06 & never broke 3'32 for speed indicator in his career
you are clueless at even basic analysis
Irrelevant. Lagat coulda run 12:40. He had what it takes and still has most of it.
utter drivel
show me 1 race in last few years he showed this potential
& attempting to knock nearly 20s off a then 12'59 even with a 51.5 finish wasn't it
ventolin^3 wrote:
& who only managed 12'48sb in '06 & never broke 3'32 for speed indicator in his career
you are clueless at even basic analysis
Why do you use "coulda" only when it benefits you? What "coulda" Bekele in '06?
ventolin^3 wrote:
utter drivel
show me 1 race in last few years he showed this potential
& attempting to knock nearly 20s off a then 12'59 even with a 51.5 finish wasn't it
Lagat is a 3:26 guy and excelled at 5k later on when many would say he was a shadow of his former self. If he had just done the 5k right away he woulda run much faster.
We're not talking about any sort of time frame, we are talking about his bodily potential.
Pretty simple really.