Craig Virgin and Fam have interesting comments on Rupp and NOPe

This is one of the worst arguments that keeps being repeated. Any HS athlete is capable of doubling at a meet and, sometimes, they PR twice.

You all should be familiar with the young German Fernandez. Didn't he run 4:00 and 8:34 for 1600/3200 within hours of each other?

The absolute worst is that he was running world record pace for some of the race and then did his last repeat in 4.01. I don't know how one can overlook the incredible amount of miles and strength training this group does. There are simply certain things he can do that we cannot. Run that fast, for example.

A Duck wrote:

I wouldn't over read this. I knew Craig back in the day, and have spoken with him over the years at various meets, to me he's a very humble guy. Maybe like many elite athletes there is a bit of "hard to let go, have to inject a little 'me' into it subconsciously."

My experiences with Craig have seen a lot more of the "injecting me" than you seem to indicate.

As for those suggesting the "secretive nature" of Salazar changing: in the past, I have witnessed several Salazar coaching sessions when I have had no business being there.

Never was an issue to him, even after I made sure he acknowledged my presence.

Anybody think it odd that Rupp has acne problem all of a sudden?

Whistleblower protection isn't relevant. Doping isn't federal fraud, nor does it have to be criminal. NOP might have NDAs preventing athletes and coaches from revealing legal drug therapy.

Or not.

Of course this can happen. 4:20 is not fast for Rupp.

Of course he can come back with a 4:01 after some 10k pace miles.

I saw a college runner once indoors run 1:20 for a 600m heat, later that day 1:18 for a 600m final, then 48 for a 4 x 400m final. Next day, he ran 2:24 for 1000m, then 1:49 for a 4 x 800m final. His best was only 1:48. This guy was not trained well cardiovascularly at all, but was muscularly strong.

One trick that allows Galen to do this is muscular strength. They lift weights. The ability to do these types of workouts has less to do with your aerobic capacity, and more to do with your muscular endurance.

I'm sure Virgin never lifted a weight. If he did, he would have been able to kick a little bit.

You obviously are a know-nothing when it come to Virgin's career.

If NOP has a team wide doping program then why do they only have 2 athletes competing for honors at the very top level? Al Sal's success is over-rated and the perception of him is skewed by the work he's done with already exceptionally talented athletes. He isn't exactly turning donkeys into racehorses.

Aparently in 2010 Dubai marathon HG ran the last km in 2.36 after running 41km. that is 4.10 pace. He could do that as he is an incredable athlete.

I think now we have to be getting to the point that Rupp is an incredible athlete. He is better than anyone has ever been in america at 1500-5000m. It is expected he is doing things a little bit better than everyone else.

i think they show these videos as advertising. It may make you want to pay the subscription to watch a live pay for view record attempt.

All athletes in NOP apear to train that way. Rupp is a top boy I hope he wins world indoors. Good luck to him.

Scottish runner

I believe that Salazar is a 100% drug cheat and that his athletes are all dirty to some degree.

Virgin is an idiot that is into himself more than the sport. Fam has always been a little out there.

So the question is, Who do you want to hear from? It will not be a Nike current athlete because they have too much to lose. Someone like Amy Yoder Begley was hired as a collegiate coach because of what she achieved under Salazar. So ex Salazar athletes that still want a job in the industry can not speak out. Others will be considered sour grapes. Who do we want to hear from?

former former wrote:

So the question is, Who do you want to hear from? It will not be a Nike current athlete because they have too much to lose. Someone like Amy Yoder Begley was hired as a collegiate coach because of what she achieved under Salazar. So ex Salazar athletes that still want a job in the industry can not speak out. Others will be considered sour grapes. Who do we want to hear from?

Anyone with at least partially credible evidence would do for a start.

It's hard to believe that he's worked with so many people without any serious allegations coming out, other than 1 positive that was later overturned. Even with Lance / Dr Ferrari, there was a ton of stories and suspicious evidence even from the very beginning of his TdF success.

A Duck wrote:

For what it is worth, others, as well as Armstrong, have stated that the Biological Passport cannot be beaten.

nice try ADUCK slipping in that non-fact

the biological passport is easily breaten

There are currently tons of stories out there. Much like Lance. Their were also many stories about Alberto back in the 80's as an athlete. The bigger the fish, the bigger the fight and the harder to reel in.

THERE. I apologize

Haile running the last 1k at 4:10 pace is not running a 4:01 mile after setting the 2 mile record.

Yes, Craig Virgin did lift weights.

Yes, I totally believe that Virgin was clean.

Where's there's a lot rumor, there is usually some fact.

My personal opinion...of course over the last x amount of years someone (elites in programs) has taken something that others either don't have access to or wouldn't take regardless. No kidding, right?

What is deemed legal and illegal, I don't know. If Galen did or didn't, did it help him to get the finish line faster...I don't know. But without actual proof or witnesses, it's purely speculation and hearsay based off performances and post race workouts that seem a bit much.

Galen's best indoor mile time is 3:50.92 set a year ago. For him to run a 4:01 would not be an all out effort going 2.5 seconds per lap slower during a workout. But after running 3 other miles at about 65 seconds per lap, and a 2 mile in 8:07, anyone's eyebrows would be raised.

Obviously it's possible as KB closed with a 4:01 during a 10,000 meter race years ago...who does that? HIs fastest indoor mile is 4:01.57! Of course he could break 4 minutes indoors, but he hasn't and that indoor mile was set the year after his 26:17.

For numbers sake, if my pr were 10 flat for 2 miles, I know if you gave me 40 minutes, I could run a few miles in 5:25 and close the fourth one in 5 minutes flat, with enough rest interval in between.

For all of the smart a**ses out there with your know-it-all answers, no I'm not saying it's the same thing as someone setting a record versus a guy running 10 minutes, it's just a simple comparison to get some of you to open your minds that yes, it's possible.

If Rupp was being aided in some way, and Ritzenhein runs with the same crowd, then how come he's not up there with Rupp and Farah in 10,000 meter races? How come he seems to fall off the back and looks to be working way harder just to maintain contact? Are you guys saying that Rupp is being aided or that he's just THAT much better than Ritzenhein?

Somethings just can't be explained.

beaten

well first of all, it was a 4:01 1600, not a full mile. So maybe a 4:03 for the mile, making rupp's effort that much less. More like 12 second slower than his mile PR.

second of all...have you ever done mile repeats at 10k pace? I don't think I ever have done them that slowly. I can't remember ever seeing a workout prescribe mile reps that slow. It would feel easy and hardly worth the effort.

If he had done 4 mile reps at 5k pace...that might be suspicious. But 10k pace?

And as a guy who has PRd in my second race of the day...I don't think 8 minutes of effort is that much of a problem for a guy of Rupp's talent and fitness, esp after an hour rest.

just sayin wrote:

A Duck wrote:

For what it is worth, others, as well as Armstrong, have stated that the Biological Passport cannot be beaten.

nice try ADUCK slipping in that non-fact

the biological passport is easily breaten

Whether it can really be beaten or not is a side issue -- there are top athletes out there commenting that it would be near impossible, tough to beat.

serious answer wrote:

Whistleblower protection isn't relevant. Doping isn't federal fraud, nor does it have to be criminal. NOP might have NDAs preventing athletes and coaches from revealing legal drug therapy.

Or not.

You can claim whistle blower status within any incorporated entity whether the infraction is federal or not.

It happened in a company I co-founded. I don't recall if it was upheld, but it certainly held things up for us for a long time and protected the employee who got paid to do nothing until things were worked out.

Please, stop with all this ridiculous, uneducated "grey-area" talk. WADA rules specifically say that anything that is not approved is banned. A TUE is not in any grey area. A secret drug is on the banned list because it is not on the approved list.

S0. NON-APPROVED SUBSTANCES

Any pharmacological substance which is not addressed by any of the subsequent sections of the List and with no current approval by any governmental regulatory health authority for human therapeutic use (e.g. drugs under pre-clinical or clinical development or discontinued, designer drugs, substances approved only for veterinary use) is prohibited at all times.

http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/World_Anti-Doping_Program/WADP-Prohibited-list/2013/WADA-Prohibited-List-2013-EN.pdf