Tony Reavis 'Quote Of Day' on Kenyan 26.2 success is BS.

The article is about Africans generally. Not all Africans are Kenyans.

the average american FEMALE weighs 156lbs. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/26/ideal-weight-americans-weigh-pounds_n_2193385.htmlhow many people on this list weigh close to 156?:http://www.letsrun.com/2010/heightweight0504.phpour youth "talent pool" is full of 180lb guys cranking away in the weight room & slamming fast food with aspirations to be 3rd string JV tight end. thus 9/10 guys in the US with the "right genetics" are 40+ lbs overweight & haven't ran a lick by the time they're in their late teens.

EPOpian wrote:

I think it has far more to do with genetics and location than just the training group/location/mindset. Seriously, a dude starts running in 2010 and runs a 2:03 just from his lifestyle? I don't think so.

Only the most idiotic letsrun trolls dismiss genetics as anything but a massive factor.

How has such a relatively small population of people from a relatively small area of Africa absolutely dominated distance running?

- It's not just poverty so they 'want' it more or some BS. Otherwise there are a ton of equally poor people in the world who just must be really lazy, right?

- Maybe it's the effects of living at altitude, but if so, why would you dismiss this as a factor in favour of genetics- why wouldn't the same traits advantageous for populations living tend to flourish and create a bunch of distance runner swith this GENETIC advantage?

I figure most of the morons who dismiss genetics entirely are just trolls.

HRE wrote:

The article is about Africans generally. Not all Africans are Kenyans.

It has to be about East Africans. West Africans are the sprinters. Slaves were taken from the West coast of Africa. Those are the people whose ancestors became great sprinters.

USlifestyledepletestalentpool wrote:

the average american FEMALE weighs 156lbs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/26/ideal-weight-americans-weigh-pounds_n_2193385.html

how many people on this list weigh close to 156?:

http://www.letsrun.com/2010/heightweight0504.php

our youth "talent pool" is full of 180lb guys cranking away in the weight room & slamming fast food with aspirations to be 3rd string JV tight end. thus 9/10 guys in the US with the "right genetics" are 40+ lbs overweight & haven't ran a lick by the time they're in their late teens.

EPOpian wrote:

I think it has far more to do with genetics and location than just the training group/location/mindset. Seriously, a dude starts running in 2010 and runs a 2:03 just from his lifestyle? I don't think so.

This is also my point.

LOLCATS wrote:

Only the most idiotic letsrun trolls dismiss genetics as anything but a massive factor.

How has such a relatively small population of people from a relatively small area of Africa absolutely dominated distance running?

- It's not just poverty so they 'want' it more or some BS. Otherwise there are a ton of equally poor people in the world who just must be really lazy, right?

- Maybe it's the effects of living at altitude, but if so, why would you dismiss this as a factor in favour of genetics- why wouldn't the same traits advantageous for populations living tend to flourish and create a bunch of distance runner swith this GENETIC advantage?

I figure most of the morons who dismiss genetics entirely are just trolls.

Think about it.

Why does a country of 30 million dominate hockey?

Why does a country like Mexico produce the most boxers?

There is more to it than genetics. Some of it has to do with which sport the youth concentrate on. At the same time, genetics may have something to do with it. Especially when it comes to body type.

not always greener on the... wrote:

NO, Giddy's post is a dumb post. "You" and others sit there and complain about Ryan and Dathan, not me.

I think they're amazing, just not capable of running with the best of the best based off of their ability (genetic factors that limit us all). Training with them won't do it. Salazar tried it when he was like 20, remember that people. Didn't work out so good for him either. I still have the track and field news magazine where he complained about sitting around waiting for his next run.

Pretty funny you called my post dumb and the write a sentence that basically agreed with me original sentiment that we should appreciate and respect the effort that those give.

On the other hand, putting Alberto in the mix is pretty stupid considering he burned himself out, admittedly, and still ran times slower than both Dathan and Hall. He was his own undoing.

I don't think it's genetics as much as I think it's direct competition. As long as these guys are the best in America, they have nothing to fear in terms of sponsorship or finance. There is no real need to press more than there is to maintain. The only real out of place runner in American History is Bob Kennedy, every other great American has come at a time when there where multiple Americans pushing the pace and knocking at each others door.

We have this fabulous system for producing young talent in the NCAA, and then post collegiately, nothing. What is the motivation for a Stanford, Wisconsin, or some other graduate to continue running if it financially sets them back 4 to 8 years. There are 3 Olympic spots every 4 years. Putting your life on hold for a chance, especially when you have little to no monetary support, isn't worth it when you can use your degree and make as much out of college as an established pro in the sport.

You can't expect our guys to compete if you're only supporting the top 10 superstars. If there's no development system where guys are secure, whats the point... to win some local 5k or run in the Stanford Invite developmental 10k... gimmie a break.

Again, it's not genetics, it's numbers. We don't have them because there's little motivation to continue on other than the drive to see how fast you can run. And see how long that takes you when your living with 10 other guys in a crappy house with no money.

"Victory for all of us" my ass. Look at the Kenyans in the track races in the last championships. They have too much ego to work as a team - one of the main reasons why Farah can dominate the way he does.

Giddy wrote:

Putting your life on hold for a chance, especially when you have little to no monetary support, isn't worth it when you can use your degree and make as much out of college as an established pro in the sport.

What a load of crap. Every potential elite runner can run two hours day and keep a desk job. Americans just don't have the required work ethics anymore. Nowadays it's all about getting your photo in a magazine or get sponsored with a few energy bars just to be able to say that you're sponsored.

If they wanted to continue to run 13:25, 28:30, 1:03, and 2:10... you're right... but then they'd have to listen to "old schoolers" like you complain that back in your day, they were competitive in the world running the same times...

See my post on page 3, and give my regards to Eric Little when you see him.

HRE wrote:

The same question can be asked of "sprint genes" as of "distance genes." Which ones are they? Without that answer it's a hypothesis.

It's beyond the stage of being merely a hypothesis. We're at the level of theory on this issue.

It's easier to see that WC sprinting requires a specific genetic combination. With distance running you have to put in more time to reveal the talent.

I still find it hard to believe that people who are athletes and can read pretty good doubt that extreme human abilities do not depend on a specific genetic combination, which is set at fertilization.

I agree with the many that genetics play a huge role. I also think it's obvious & a huge denial to not think this.

subfive wrote:

HRE wrote:

The same question can be asked of "sprint genes" as of "distance genes." Which ones are they? Without that answer it's a hypothesis.

It's beyond the stage of being merely a hypothesis. We're at the level of theory on this issue.

It's easier to see that WC sprinting requires a specific genetic combination. With distance running you have to put in more time to reveal the talent.

I still find it hard to believe that people who are athletes and can read pretty good doubt that extreme human abilities do not depend on a specific genetic combination, which is set at fertilization.

Genes will give you an array of physical characteristics that create some possibilities and eliminate others. There's no way Kevin Garnett was going to make a living as a professional distance runner. There's no way Kimetto makes a living as a professional basketball player and their genes have a huge role in that situation.

But genes only create potential. The environment they exist in determines what their possessor does and how well. Ethiopians and Kenyans are not genetically identical but they run as well as each other. If we attribute their almost unique running success to genes we're saying that two different groups share one genetic abnormality that no other groups have. Ugandans, on the other hand, are essentially Kenyans who live on the other side of a line that the British drew but don't, with a few exceptions, run as well as Kenyans or Ethiopians do despite having the genetic abnormality that makes Kenyans and Ethiopians so fast.

Yes, it's possible that East Africans MAY have genetic characteristic(s) that allow the to run as well as they do. But it's very unlikely that other people don't possess those same genes. Something has happened in East Africa that develops that genetic potential that's not happening elsewhere right now.

HRE wrote:

There's no way Kevin Garnett was going to make a living as a professional distance runner. There's no way Kimetto makes a living as a professional basketball player and their genes have a huge role in that situation.

Based on what??? How do you know they couldn't succeed at each other's sports?

Seriously, you guys. A fair treatment of the complexity of humans (at the genetic level and especially the epigenetic level) would require more nuanced thought than the biological determinism that you guys are pushing. Go read some freaking anthropology texts. Jesus.

what a wrote:

HRE wrote:

There's no way Kevin Garnett was going to make a living as a professional distance runner. There's no way Kimetto makes a living as a professional basketball player and their genes have a huge role in that situation.

Based on what??? How do you know they couldn't succeed at each other's sports?

Because almost everyone in those sports have similar physical characteristics that differ from those of the people in the other sport.

For instance, only 24 people 5'9" or shorter have played in the National Basketball Association, but elite marathoners are rarely over that height.

I believe you're painting with too broad a brush. It's not "East Africans" or "Kenyans, Ethiopians and Ugandans" that excel in these disciplines but just a few individual tribes.

That there are physiological factors we know contribute towards one's ability to do well in these disciplines (body type and oxygen delivery capability) and that so many individuals from these tribes exhibit those characteristics over and over again, these tribes must, as groups, have those characteristics expressed much more frequently in their individual members than are found in the world populace as a whole.

A spade is a spade is a... wrote:

Of course it not pure genes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But without it, hard work will only get you so far. You have to have the ability or you'll never be able to do it. The Sell comparison was spot on and he's a perfect example. He had great genes, but not good enough to compete with the top Kenyans no matter who he trained with or where on earth. It is what it is.

This post.

It's more genes than anything else. This dude nailed it. Brian was in a group environment, trained hard, etc... If he trains with these guys in Kenya, THEIR WAY, he's not dropping any significant time. He just would not be able to stay up in workouts.

Why does poster after poster over think this easy stuff. It IS genes! A 2:15 Hanson guy runs 2:15 for 6 years. He's a 2:15 marathoner and can't make a real difference by training with the Kenyans/Africans. NOT gonna happen.

Math Major wrote:

what a wrote:

Based on what??? How do you know they couldn't succeed at each other's sports?

Because almost everyone in those sports have similar physical characteristics that differ from those of the people in the other sport.

For instance, only 24 people 5'9" or shorter have played in the National Basketball Association, but elite marathoners are rarely over that height.

The fact that those people have succeeded means that it's possible for Kimetto and Garnett to switch roles and be successful.