Yeah and let me add we had this same politically correct, insufferable ignorance and puritanism four years ago with Rashid Ramzi...
"oh he's just a great talent" "trains in Rabat on the same trails as El Guerrojou" "havent seen enough evidence"...
If you guys can't figure it out you really don't have a f%$king clue compared to what you think you know.
Simply astounding.
faster than lightning wrote:
If Makhloufi is dirty for running too fast at the end then Manzano is also dirty. Centrowitz is semi-dirty, finishing fast, but not as fast as the first.
Accusers on letsrun are total fools. They believe rveryone is dirty except the person you are hoping will win.
felps phan wrote: This argument is [SPOT ON]. Observing what just doesn't look right in the []second and fourth place Americans has absolutely nothing to do with who finished ahead of them. I have no doubt this message board would be full of these same accusations had Centro and Manzano finished tied for Gold -- that the injustice of letting finish so fast affected fine runners from the rest of the world only adds fuel to the fire.
So true, as fixed.
The Algerian threw a 1:49 final 800m in his semi-heat. Kiplagat bit his move from 400-200m. By 150m Kiplagat and the Ethiopian were taxed and were done. Kiprop who's was nursing and injury couldn't mount an attack after having to run with the Algeruan in the semi, Willis never was in the mix.
Manzano finishes strong as he did in his semi and overtakes the guys who bit the Algerians sprint that began earlier and never ended.
My apothecary is equally talented.
The point is that no one who's saying "HE'S OBVIOUSLY DOPED!" actually has any information beyond the race itself. He very well may be dirty, but what happens when the results come back clean? You'll still say that he was doped, based on nothing but a really good performance. It's just an endless circle of bullshit.
Fact is, an adrenaline boost at the right time in a race can do as much as any drug. It's just damn near impossible to control.
Trials C Qualifier wrote:
I'm just glad he recovered from the knee injury he suffered the previous day during the 800.
I believe that gun is STILL smoking ......
OK, I notice a lot of people using the "he can't possibly be doping, he didn't close fast enough for a doper!" excuse. This is SO incorrect it's not even funny. Of course he's not closing insanely fast! This guy would be SH!T without drugs, which is shown in the Daegu semi-final!! If someone like Kiprop were to dope, you'd probably see him closing in less than 50 seconds, which is why he doesn't do it, he's good enough without it. And who cares about his "steady" progression from the last 3 years? Correct me if i'm wrong on this next statement but wasn't Ramzi doping from at least 2005 maybe even earlier? The point is, doping doesn't turn EVERY SINGLE PERSON into a WR runner, it has it's benefits to different people to a limit. And He's dirty.
XCfan23948368930 wrote:
OK, I notice a lot of people using the "he can't possibly be doping, he didn't close fast enough for a doper!" excuse. This is SO incorrect it's not even funny. Of course he's not closing insanely fast! This guy would be SH!T without drugs, which is shown in the Daegu semi-final!! If someone like Kiprop were to dope, you'd probably see him closing in less than 50 seconds, which is why he doesn't do it, he's good enough without it. And who cares about his "steady" progression from the last 3 years? Correct me if i'm wrong on this next statement but wasn't Ramzi doping from at least 2005 maybe even earlier? The point is, doping doesn't turn EVERY SINGLE PERSON into a WR runner, it has it's benefits to different people to a limit. And He's dirty.
Totally agree
what come on wrote:
The point is that no one who's saying "HE'S OBVIOUSLY DOPED!" actually has any information beyond the race itself. He very well may be dirty, but what happens when the results come back clean? You'll still say that he was doped, based on nothing but a really good performance. It's just an endless circle of bullshit.
Fact is, an adrenaline boost at the right time in a race can do as much as any drug. It's just damn near impossible to control.
...you do know Ramzi's original test results came back clean, right? And that Marion Jones never tested positive?
People can beat the tests. People on this board have given a lot of reasons why they think he was doped, and not all of them are from the final (his performance in the earlier rounds also makes no sense, and doesn't at all support the "adrenaline surge" theory, but strongly support the "I know I'm strong enough to win even if I waste all this energy" theory). When big names in the running community, such as Coe and Cram, are suspicious of him but don't show any real suspicion of Bolt (who's the epitome of "really good performance" if I ever saw one), there's probably something to the argument.
Isnt it Ramadam? Shouldnt he be hungry? to train off of pure water is hard, but I'll admit he looked pretty good to be running only on water.
deanouk wrote:Idiot. You're just pi**ed off because no Kenyans got a medal
moron
it was already stated beforehand asbel had a hamstring injury & his loss in the semi showed this
he wasn't going to win & silas/nixon needed him to "lead" them
there was little chance of gold even if all 3 in top shape when mahloofi had shown his ability in the semi
that looked 3'26 ability
There is nothing about his performance and from the splits (which I've posted on the official 1500 thread & can't be bothered to type out again here) which indicates 3:26 ability
idiot
you haven't a clue when you see ability
he only tried hard in a 200m stretch in the last lap, cruised either side & still destroyed the field in 3'34
he has huge <3'30 ability
His closing splits (e.g last 800 ~ 1:50.3, last 400 ~ 52.8, last 300 ~ 39.0, last 200 ~ 26.9! (slow), last 100m ~ 14.0!! (very slow and clearly losing form, knees dropping, despite easing last few strides, which would have only slowed him by c. 0.3) were all inferior to EL G's splits in Athens, Bile's splits in Rome, Coe's splits in LA, Cacho's in 92 or Morceli in winning the World's in 91, or does that mean they were all also capable of beating 3:26 on their days!?
idiot, those guys had long pushes of 800 out for hicham/bile & coe & morceli mostly last lap
this guy only put in 200m of hard effort in a whole 1500m & ran 3'34
you haven't a clue idiot as to how fast he is
Your knowledge of historical stats is either poor or you're just trolling.
moron
you are clueless
ramzi exhibited similar ability in '08 & anyone with a clue about ability knew he was in 3'27 shape back then & his real push was only 200 out
he looked even better in semi
LOL. I thought you didn't have a tv to watch the 10000m? Did you manage to get one in time to watch the 1500?
I was in the stadium and he was not cruising the last 100m. He eased up in the last few strides. 14.0 for the last 100m is p*ss poor at this level, and those behind him hardly closed. All out he might have managed 13.6.
For you, after the dismal performance of all 3 kenyans (and I stated that Kiprop was injured) , it's easier to jump on the band wagon by claiming Makhloufi is dirty and what he did was somehow out of this world. A 25.3 200m stretch is not unheard of at this level. Makhloufi's splits were not exceptional. His manner was surprising, but the majority of the rest of the field sucked.
And you've proven over the past week or so that your historical knowledge of middle distance running ain't as good as you make it out to be!
Koblenz in 1980 was after the Moscow Olympics, moron.
The thing about Makhloufi is not so much that he improved dramatically over a short period of time as where he hails from. For a Maghreb to improve suddenly, it raises suspicion.
I think that is the issue here to most people.
No, that is the issue to the racists here. The issue to thinking people is HOW Makhloufi did it. Twice in three rounds, he drops an otherworldly kick from 300m out. Nobody does that in rounds. Well, Rashid Ramzi did it in 2008. He wins all three rounds going away, extending excessive effort to win, which is an unnecessary waste of energy that no one else in the field did. His 'celebration' after winning the gold medal was contrived. He looked like a bad actor trying to convince the world he was surprised and happy to win.
There are a lot of things that most people think was wrong about Makhloufi before they think about where he's from.
common wrote:
No, that is the issue to the racists here. The issue to thinking people is HOW Makhloufi did it. Twice in three rounds, he drops an otherworldly kick from 300m out. Nobody does that in rounds. Well, Rashid Ramzi did it in 2008. He wins all three rounds going away, extending excessive effort to win, which is an unnecessary waste of energy that no one else in the field did. His 'celebration' after winning the gold medal was contrived. He looked like a bad actor trying to convince the world he was surprised and happy to win.
There are a lot of things that most people think was wrong about Makhloufi before they think about where he's from.
Last 300m stats from Beijing:
Ramzi 38.69 (Rd 1) 39.61/3:37 (S/F) 38.94/3:32 (final)
Kiprop 38.38/3:41 (Rd 1) 38.44/3:37 (S/F) 38.91/3:33 (final)
Willis no 1st rd data; 40.04/3:37 (S/F) 39.66/3:34 (final)
Baala no 1st rd data; 39.97/3:37 (S/F) 39.31/3:34 (final)
Higuero 38.5/3:41 (Rd 1) 38.91/3:37 (S/F) 39.84/3:34 (final)
Iguider 41.68/3:36 (Rd 1) 39.01/3:37 (S/f) 40.76/3:34 (final)
van Deventer 41.22/3:36 (Rd 1) 39.25/3:37 (S/F) 40.47/3:34(Final)
Makhloufi probably did:
40.1/3:35 (Rd 1), 38.24/3:42 (S/F), 39.08/3:34 (final)
That's FAR worse than what Ramzi did so he's not Ramzi the second.
It's worse than what Kiprop did in 08.
It's quite similar to what Willis, Baala, Higuero did in 08 and significantly better than Iguider and van Deventer.
For the last F*cking time, you CANNOT compare Mahkloufi to anyone else! You have to consider the performance levels, not every runner has the exact same amount of talent, and Doping does not have the exact same effect on everyone! Like I said earlier, without the drugs he's probably a 3:40s guy. Just because he compares evenly to everyone else doesn't mean he hasn't been doping. Before he started taking the drugs he was most likely your typical scrub, one day he decides "I'm sick of this, time to juice up" and drops into the world class level. And don't give me that crap about how he's been steadily improving over the years, because Ramzi was definitely doping in 2004/2005. The fact that this guy is coming out of nowhere is the problem.
Madness wrote:
Last 300m stats from Beijing:
Ramzi 38.69 (Rd 1) 39.61/3:37 (S/F) 38.94/3:32 (final)
Kiprop 38.38/3:41 (Rd 1) 38.44/3:37 (S/F) 38.91/3:33 (final)
Willis no 1st rd data; 40.04/3:37 (S/F) 39.66/3:34 (final)
Baala no 1st rd data; 39.97/3:37 (S/F) 39.31/3:34 (final)
Higuero 38.5/3:41 (Rd 1) 38.91/3:37 (S/F) 39.84/3:34 (final)
Iguider 41.68/3:36 (Rd 1) 39.01/3:37 (S/f) 40.76/3:34 (final)
van Deventer 41.22/3:36 (Rd 1) 39.25/3:37 (S/F) 40.47/3:34(Final)
Makhloufi did:
40.58/3:35 (Rd 1), 38.70/3:42 (S/F), 39.42/3:34 (final)
Ramzi did:
38.69 (Rd 1) 39.61/3:37 (S/F) 38.94/3:32 (final)
That's FAR worse than what Ramzi did so he's not Ramzi the second.
Are we looking at the same numbers? I put in the times I pulled from the videos of Makhloufi in the three rounds from London 2012. These times are very comparable to Ramzi and Higuero, with the exception of Makhloufi's first round being slow. Not comparable (faster) to Willis or Baala at all. Kiprop was faster than even Ramzi, so what does that tell us about Makhloufi? Not a damn thing. Again, the doping suspicion doesn't come from the times as much as it comes from HOW, the context, of how those times are placed in the race. Ramzi and Makhloufi ran outrageously fast when they didn't need to, when they should have been conservative, like every other racer practices. Principles of economy in energy distribution are universal. Energy wasted is not able to be used for future rounds. The only way to get away with wasting energy is to have more than your competition. At the very highest level, the only way to have an order of magnitude more capability is to be 1) a once in a generation talent, like Rudisha, or 2) an incautious, arrogant doper, like Ramzi.
It's worse than what Kiprop did in 08. True
It's quite similar to what Willis, Baala, Higuero did in 08 and significantly better than Iguider and van Deventer.Not true. It's better than all of them. By a lot.
There was nothing exceptional about his performances other than his confidence. He was the only 1500 runner who actually enjoyed being there. He ran with great confidence and a pre-race plan. Everyone else was running scared.
Bahahahahahahahah! Nice one. 11/10
common wrote:
Bahahahahahahahah! Nice one. 11/10
I wasn't trolling. I'll say it again:
There was nothing exceptional about his performances other than his confidence. He was the only 1500 runner who actually enjoyed being there. He ran with great confidence and a pre-race plan. Everyone else was running scared.
Watch the race again. Steve Cram is implying drugs, and you can be sure I will ask him if he knows something I don't.