When was the last time a CLEAN rider won the Tour de France

I looked for this post at the Science of Sports, and didn't find anything remotely close. On the contrary, I found a chart with a power analysis during climbs, and Lemond was a very low 5.7 W/kg, while all the riders after him (Indurain, Riis, Pantani, Ulrich, Armstrong) all ultimately had values higher than 6.2 W/kg (about 10% more), with Lance providing the highest power output at 6.8 W/kg (a whopping 20% increase). The last few years of the Tour, these same figures are back down to at or below 6.0 W/kg.Looks like, from any Science of Sports analysis, Greg Lemond is not even a suspect, and most certainly not the "MOST suspicious rider I can think of", unless there is a serious defect with your thinking process.

InWyo wrote:

I'm amazed how many people are saying LeMond.

The Science of Sport guys recently had a post of suspicious performances, and the one that sticks out the most is LeMond's 1984 Time Trial. The only two with an average speed faster were a short prologues in 1994 (likely doped) and 2005 (likely doped). And the bike technology in 1984 put him at a severe disadvantage.

Greg is the MOST suspicious rider I can think of.

adhd wrote:

I agree Vino is a beast, hoping he can get a stage win this year, but not looking good so far.

He's not getting younger. Btw, Vino could have also won OG in 2000 but the break he was in was with his Team Telekom teammates Ullrich and Kloeden and in order to guarantee himself a nice contract on that team, he let Ullrich win.

oldhalfmileguy wrote:

You're pulling that number straight out of your ass. Find some documentation and prove it.

you sure you have a search engine? first google result

96.0 Espen Harald Bjerke Norwegian cross country skier This score was achieved in 2005 (7.3 liter/min, 76 kg body weight), listed in an article on

http://www.fasterskier.com

.

96.0 Bjørn Dæhlie Norwegian cross country skier though another source has him recording a best of 90 ml/kg/min.

93.0 Kurt Asle Arvesen Road Cycling a Norwegian professional road bicycle racer for Team Sky. Figure taken from article on syklingens verden website, said to be from 1997.

92.5 Greg LeMond cycling US professional cyclist

92.0 Matt Carpenter runner Pikes Peak marathon course record holder

92.0 Tore Ruud Hofstad Norwegian cross country skier achieved in 2005

My mistake. As I said, if I'm wrong, more props to you. No need to continue being a b*tch about it. You were right, I was wrong.

I also wasn't trying to argue LeMond was doping, so no need to be so defensive. I have no idea whether he was or not, though I don't find him particularly suspicious. I do think Greg LeMond hasn't aged well--he's a very whiny, bitter man. But oh well. He was a great champion on the bike.

LeMond clean? Give me a break! That holier-than-thou jerk who thinks he was above everyone else needs to shut his mouth.

Since innuendo is all that people like LeMond have against others, lets propose an even more preposterous scenario than LeMond's win in the 1989 TdF:

So, LeMond gets shot in the chest by his brother in law, lodging numerous bbs in his chest and lining of the heart. Has big surgery to get most of it out, but still has some in the lining of heart.

Then we are supposed to believe that just 8 momnths later, LeMond's goes on to win the 2009 Tour due to his hard work ethic?? B.S. If anyone else had won a Tour under those same circumstances, LeMond would be the first to point fingers and claim doping. Look in the mirror Greg.

Cycling geeks are insufferable. Not as douchey as Tri guys, though. Cross fitters are still the worst.

Everybody around Lemond was a cheater. How did he beat so many drug cheats if he was clean? -Laurent Fignon: Admitted to doping-Pedro Delgado: Tested positive -Steven Rooks: Admitted to doping-Sean Kelly: Tested positive-Bjarne Riis: Admitted to doping-Claudio Chiappucci: Said he had started using EPO in 1993-Luc Leblanc: Admitted to using EPO-Stephen Roche: Used EPO

If the only way to make your point is to make up lies, maybe that's the best indication he was clean.How about adding some real facts that contradict your scenario:- Lemond had the "hunting accident" in 1987, and missed the 87 and 88 tours.- The "big surgery" didn't get most of them out, but left most of them in. There were still left 37 shotgun pellets (out of some 40 plus pellets) inside.- It took two years to recover, not 8 months.I wonder if all these "anti-LeMond" posts aren't really coming from some covert PR team looking to smear LeMond's good name, as retribution for his outspoken stance on doping.

DC Rider wrote:

LeMond clean? Give me a break! That holier-than-thou jerk who thinks he was above everyone else needs to shut his mouth.

Since innuendo is all that people like LeMond have against others, lets propose an even more preposterous scenario than LeMond's win in the 1989 TdF:

So, LeMond gets shot in the chest by his brother in law, lodging numerous bbs in his chest and lining of the heart. Has big surgery to get most of it out, but still has some in the lining of heart.

Then we are supposed to believe that just 8 momnths later, LeMond's goes on to win the 2009 Tour due to his hard work ethic?? B.S. If anyone else had won a Tour under those same circumstances, LeMond would be the first to point fingers and claim doping. Look in the mirror Greg.

LeMond won in the years before EPO, when clean athletes with talent still stood a chance of winning. I don't know the magnituded of performance benefits for cortisone, amphetamines, and steroids for grand tour cyclists, but I think they are far less than EPO. When you look at power computations and overall times, Lemonds performances weren't consistently super-human, like those from the decade that followed.

Actually, Espen Harald Bjerke never had 96 in VO2, they did a mistake during the test. If you had actually used google, oldhalfmileguy, you would have known this.

So, what's the consensus on Lemond and the rest of the great riders today?

Do people still think Lemond- my favorite rider from the past- was clean? How about today's stars?

TheOhioState wrote:

So, what's the consensus on Lemond and the rest of the great riders today?

Do people still think Lemond- my favorite rider from the past- was clean? How about today's stars?

There's nothing on LeMond - probably clean. Today's stars are clean(er) compared to the past based on the much slower climbing speeds. The worst was Armstrong's era...a true dope fest:

"More importantly for Lance Armstrong, during the 7-year window when he won every Tour de France (1999-2005), 87% of the top-10 finishers (61 of 70) were confirmed dopers or suspected of doping."

Never:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France

TheOhioState wrote:

So, what's the consensus on Lemond and the rest of the great riders today?

Do people still think Lemond- my favorite rider from the past- was clean? How about today's stars?

Re-reading this thread is fun, especially in light of all the information that came out since July 2012. Wiggins and company not looking so "above suspicion" now are they? Frank Schleck was later suspended for doping, which surely implicates Andy considering they went team to team together.

Oscar Periero had a doping case in 2007 (after his "win" in 2006) but was later "cleared" for using salbutamol (just like Froome).

Carlos Sastre appears to still not have been implicated, but I remain highly suspicious considering he was on the CSC team of Riis (admitted doper) and team mate of Schleck (busted for doping).

Vincenzo Nibali has not been under suspicion so far, but as winner of all three grand tours and of big single day races, how can you not suspect given the 115 year history of doping at Grand Tours?

And while I was the first to mention Lemond in this thread 6+ years ago, I forgot to add that I don't necessarily believe in his ultimate "cleanness". I think it is very likely that there has never been a totally clean winner of the Tour.

DC Rider wrote:LeMond clean? Give me a break!

You'd have a point if he wasn't triple world champion as a Junior in the same year. One of those events, he just showed up.

You have clean riders in succession, Fignon 1983, Lemond 1984, Hinault 1985.

Lemond came in third supporting Fignon on his first Tour. That's what clean grand tour riders do. Prior to EPO, you were either born with the engine or not.

carlos sastre is probably the cleanest winner in the last 30 years.

well its obvious it was Lance Armstrong!!! thanks to the genius minds of rek and ex runner, we all know now that EPO and PEDs dont work, so LANCE WAS CLEAN!!!! long live lance!!

m!ndweak wrote:

well its obvious it was Lance Armstrong!!! thanks to the genius minds of rek and ex runner, we all know now that EPO and PEDs dont work, so LANCE WAS CLEAN!!!! long live lance!!

+1

Keep up the good work mindweak.

pop_pop!_v2.2.1 wrote:

DC Rider wrote:LeMond clean? Give me a break!

You'd have a point if he wasn't triple world champion as a Junior in the same year. One of those events, he just showed up.

You have clean riders in succession, Fignon 1983, Lemond 1984, Hinault 1985.

Lemond came in third supporting Fignon on his first Tour. That's what clean grand tour riders do. Prior to EPO, you were either born with the engine or not.

Fignon was busted twice for amphetamines, one of the long time drugs of choice for cycling. There was no suspensions over it though, at most maybe removal from the race. For a long time you just got a time penalty. Hinault himself refused a test at least on one occasion, but no suspension happened. There is no way he is "cleaner" than other top riders of the time.

Lance.

Most tested athlete in history, never tested positive. Legend.