Hypothetical race between Jim Ryun and Steve Ovett in their respective primes. Who would win?

lol lol lol lol wrote:Ventolin-Insanity aside, it was run on a fast cinder track with negative splits, "rabbitted" through 1200 by Keino. Not only does it not compare to Ovett's best performances at 1500 meters, but Bayi's 3:32.2 with positive splits, alone, was a vastly superior performance.

The only real negative Re: the 3:33.1 was the heat, but Ryun said he felt great during the race and many people do not experience performance drop-offs at that distance.

clearly you are clueless & can't even do basic arithmetic

ryun in his 3'33.1 went ~ 60s for 1st 1/4

that means he ran last 1100m in ~ 2'53 or pace of

~ 3'28.8 !

lol lol lol lol wrote:My God, you are so profoundly retarded. CINDER IS NOT DIRT.

And the Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum track was HARD and FAST.

moron

look at the state of lane 1 in that 1500 :

eh ?

never heard it was a hurricane, just a "windy day"

try 1/2 - 3/4s as better

yup

nonsense

1/2s for whole race woud be likely

drivel

he recovered well enough to run 3'30 - a big pb

drivel

hicham was running 3'27 at nearly 30y

nonsense

ryun's endurance clearly didn't extend to 2 miles as good as ovett

bernie only had a 7'33pb at the time he ran 3'26 !

that's comparable to ovett's 8'13 with 1.08 -> 7'36

nonsense

flattening out the uneven splits in his race, it was more like 7'20-flat

on top of that it is unquantifiable how much fatigue he had in his legs from the 13'00 just 2/7 before

I was being SARCASTIC, moron!

I don't believe Ovett's 3:30 1500 was worth 3:26, as much as I don't believe Ryun's 3:33 was worth 3:26!

You haven't a sense of humour have you? Clearly a robot I think.

The funniest thing is that you have the gall to say Ryun's endurance was better than Ovett's in the face of all contrary evidence. That loses all credibility for your OPINIONS.

In that 2 mile race Ovett just stalked Rono the whole time and blitzed him in the last 100. I'm sure on Ventolin's amazing calculator there must be a "going for it" button that gives Ovett at least 3 seconds had he tried to run a fast time rather than just win the race.

deanouk wrote:The funniest thing is that you have the gall to say Ryun's endurance was better than Ovett's in the face of all contrary evidence. That loses all credibility for your OPINIONS.

which part of your peabrain doesn't comprehend

"bernie ran 3'26 with a 7'33pb which is comparable to ovett's 8'13 with universal 1.08 conversion"???

ryun's endurance like bernie's was better upto ~ mile than ovett

try & grasp a concept :

training for best possible endurance upto a specific distance

Steve-O wrote:In that 2 mile race Ovett just stalked Rono the whole time and blitzed him in the last 100. I'm sure on Ventolin's amazing calculator there must be a "going for it" button that gives Ovett at least 3 seconds had he tried to run a fast time rather than just win the race.

you are smarter than i thought

for '78

1'44.09 / 8'13.51 ->2'13.9 , 3'30.9 , 3'48.2 , 4'50.8 , 7'36.5

wrs at the time :

2'13.9 , 3'32.2 , 3'49.4 , 4'51.4

so just those poorly paced runs over 800/2 miles indicate upto = 1k wr & destroying existing 1500/mile/2k wrs

now, if you believe, as i do, that if he'd run the 800/2 miles with better pacing, on the circuit, & if henry had run faster ( 8'13+ is slow for a 7'32 guy ) we are talking maybe upto : 1'43.5 ( = wr ) & 8'10

1'43.5 / 8'10 ->2'13.1 , 3'29.6 , 3'46.7 , 4'48.9 , 7'33.3

so, all the wrs from 800 - 2k inclusive

unhappy ??

lol lol lol lol wrote:

Moron. Cinder is not dirt. Ryun ran many races on synthetic tracks and never approached his times on cider tracks. Moron.

Are you saying that the synthetic tracks of the late 60s /early 70s were of the the same as the late 70s / mid 80s? That's not even remotely close to the case. Synth tracks were in their infancy in the 60s.

SILVER !

did ryun even run on a "full" synthetic track in his life before mexico ?

pretty sure the trials were on synthetic ( iirc there is a vid showing a big tree in the centre of the field !!! ) but this is "top-3" race - you don't chase WRs in this

his 1'44.3wr was on "grasstex" simpletonly described as "synthetic", but ole tymers have described it as a mulch of

dirt + rubber tyre shreds

In a drug free race, RYUN wins big time. Ovett came out of the Coe, Ovett, Cram era whereby these and other Euros like Dieter Bauman were right up there with the cyclists in using the sauce.

stelle the one wrote:

In a drug free race, RYUN wins big time. Ovett came out of the Coe, Ovett, Cram era whereby these and other Euros like Dieter Bauman were right up there with the cyclists in using the sauce.

Proof please? Never heard it until now.

stelle the one wrote:

In a drug free race, RYUN wins big time. Ovett came out of the Coe, Ovett, Cram era whereby these and other Euros like Dieter Bauman were right up there with the cyclists in using the sauce.

Don't know much about athletics history do you!

Baumann didn't run his best races until the early 90's, when "the juice" (EPO I take it you are referring to?) was first introduced and couldn't be tested before. By the time Baumann won Olympic gold in 92, both Coe and Ovett were long retired, and Cram was 32 and hadn't run a decent race for about 4 years.

EPO DID NOT EXIST for use in sports in the early 80's; I believe 85 is when it was first used in hospitals for medical purposes.

So, NO, Ovett and Coe could not have been using that sauce before the cyclists in the early 90's first started using it.

And why do you presume Ovett and Coe were using PEDs and Ryun was not?

Steroids were around in the 60's and they weren't even illegal. By Ovett's era in the late 70's, at least there was some semblance of testing for steroids at major Champs and after world record runs. What out of competition or out of season testing did Ryun undertake? The UK BAAB were regularly testing (randomly) their top athletes out of competition from 1981. The IAAF didn't follow suit until 1989.

After all, if you advocate Ventolin's theory (which I do not), then we are to believe Ryun was capable of 1:41, 3:26 and 3:43 at the age of 20, 30 years before the great Kipketer & EL G (many people's GOAT in their respective events) approached such times on faster tracks (than the 70's synthetic ones Ventolin applies to Ryun's times) with improved shoes/training, more sophisticated pacing and in the EPO period when there was no test for it.

If Ryun was better than these guys (who were more likely of having used EPO if they knew they could get away with it) , then don't you think it's actually more likely Ryun was on drugs than Ovett!?

Your opinion (as it isn't an argument) is miss-informed and has no logical or even lateral coherence.

you are out of your depth here

doping then doesn't mean epo

back then, auto-transfusions were popular

if you look at recent cycling doping ( most cheaters of all sports & now most monitored ), it is still likely doping of choice

their is still no realistic way of catching this, apart from possibly looking for EDTA in the blood from the bags or bumetanide ( better than frusemide which can cause permanent hearing loss ) used to prevent heart failure ( death ) risk from over-ambitious transfusions

in 30+y, we are still little closer with autologous blood

that's why wada/etc still rely on busts with

"transfusion bags caught in their hotel room"

tis certain that Andy Norman looked after his Brits when the testers were around

I know about blood transfusions thank you!

How do you know what the poster (to whom I was addressing) was referring to when he mentioned "the juice"? Unless you know this poster personally? ;0)

By linking athletes' names to Baumann (who was caught for nandrolone anyway, something which former athletes would also have been tested for) and the cyclists, he was surely referring to EPO.

If there is no test for blood transfusions and neither Baumann nor the cyclists have been busted for this, then why link Ovett's name to them!?

Whatever the poster did or did not mean, the fact remains that Ovett & Coe would have been tested a lot more than Ryun would have been. His logic that Ovett & Coe ran fast, were tested, and never failed one, therefore they must be using drugs; while Ryun didn't have any testing, despite there being ample drugs at the time in the US universities, therefore he was innocent, is completely without logic.

deanouk wrote:I know about blood transfusions thank you!

pretty obvious you haven't adminstered the 100+ which entitles you to some "expertise"

Whatever the poster did or did not mean, the fact remains that Ovett & Coe would have been tested a lot more than Ryun would have been. His logic that Ovett & Coe ran fast, were tested, and never failed one, therefore they must be using drugs; while Ryun didn't have any testing, despite there being ample drugs at the time in the US universities, therefore he was innocent, is completely without logic.

this isn't about ryun, whose mononucleosis is not a tranfusable illness

the queasiness is always about guy with toxoplasmosis, which is a transfusable illness

toxoplasmosis infection this severe in a healthy male woud likely involve wading in cat shit or being inadvertently "exposed" to "cheapskate" fluids instead of more "expensive" possible

autology...

ventolin^3 wrote:

only footage ( brief ) of ryun's 1500wr

http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=44790

there have been 760 performances currently at better than 3'33.1

if anyone believes there have been 760 performances better than that at 1500, well...

thanks for that footage. I'm a big Ryun fan and I've never seen that.

SmartGuy wrote:thanks for that footage. I'm a big Ryun fan and I've never seen that.

I never looked at it big screen !!!

Ryun almost shudders to a halt after the start

He started ambling from start, looked over to Keino, almost stopped in cutting across to be behind him

Buck last !