Your Top Three 10000m runners All-Time, Lady easily runs 4:28.67 last 1600m of a 10000m

Certified wrote:

You have to be trolling noone in their right mind who saw the video of the 1986 Bislett 10000m would think Aouita almost got outkicked- man he won by 25-30m and that was done in the last 150m. Imagine what he could have done had he trained specifically for the 10000m.

Wow Aouita kicked for 150 meters - you have such a convincing argument. I can't wait for one of those 100 yard dash guys to run the 10000m.

J.R. wrote:

About Aouita, his 1500m was only 3s off the current WR, but his 5000m was 21s off the current WR.

I have no idea what this proves. The 5000m underwent an absolute revolution in times. The 1500m record improved but not by the huge amount the 5000m did. Seems this doesn't prove anything at all about Aouita.

I ran track briefly in college and my personal bests were 2:18.2(r) and 1500m 4:32.78. Wang Junxia had to have a great amount of talent to run 29:31.78 WR, 8:06.11WR, and close a fast Olympic 10000m in 4:28 because even if she was on drugs back in 1993 drugs only did so much. The thought of a female running like that is scary.

What puzzles me though is people automatically labeling her a drug cheat. After she ran those scary WR in 1993 she parted with her "drug SUSPECTED" coach and still almost pulled off the double at the next Olympics in impressive times. It's not like Junxia was a 33 flat 10000m runner who magically popped a 29:31 WR as drugs aren't a magic wand; however, more importantly why is Wang labled a drug cheat when she never failed a drug test?

I did forget to take the medicine every time either. I did progress from 4:16 to 3:39 and I got a new pb 12 times in a row. In fact after move to a new pb I didn’t get back to so poor performances relate to my best as Wang Junxia did.

For the record. It´s not true what you say about her training. She did continues to train with the same group in the next seasons after 93 and that group amiong others did include the 3 "marvelous" 1500m-5000m chinese female that did the wrs at that distances during that same period.

Poor Wang Junxia. Only top class female runners Tirunesh Dibaba is able to double 5000m and 10000m in the Olympics, and hold heats, semi-finals and finals and recover from one to another.

If we refer the men, only runners like Bekele can resist to win the world cross country short event in one evening and on the very next morning of the very next day he wins the long event, or double the 5000m and the 1000m in the Olympics.

Antonio Cabral wrote:I did forget to take the medicine every time either. I did progress from 4:16 to 3:39 and I got a new pb 12 times in a row

out of interest antonio, what was your best simultaneous 400/800 ability when you ran 3'39 ?

or if no idea of 400 time, your best 3k at the time ?

it'd be interesting to see what this calculator gives for your "ultimate" 1500 potential at the time :

ventolin^3 wrote:

Antonio Cabral wrote:I did forget to take the medicine every time either. I did progress from 4:16 to 3:39 and I got a new pb 12 times in a row

out of interest antonio, what was your best simultaneous 400/800 ability when you ran 3'39 ?

or if no idea of 400 time, your best 3k at the time ?

it'd be interesting to see what this calculator gives for your "ultimate" 1500 potential at the time :

http://www.jundo.co.uk/

I don´t have no idea what´s your or Junxia either. I simply said something about your comment om me, something out of contextr for someone like you that knows nothing about my run profile.

I guess that what is irrelevant and out of interest are your questions and observations on the discuss about top 3 1000m runners all time, lady easily runs 4:28.67 last 1600m of as 10000m and wang Junxia. What do you want to prove ? That i took drugs, that i´m not as good as Junxia, that because i´m a weak performer Junxia is out of drugs, on and on.

Only when i would start to say about something relevant of my own training and/or my own performances is when the issue of my run profile can be of interest.

However to satisfy your anger to know something more about me i go ask to your 3 questions:

out of interest antonio, what was your best simultaneous 400/800 ability when you ran 3'39 ? I have no idea.

or if no idea of 400 time, your best 3k at the time ? At that period i din´t neither or or the other. Consequently i don´t know.

it'd be interesting to see what this calculator gives for your "ultimate" 1500 potential at the time ? It´s answered in the 2 previous answers. I don´t know.

By the way i have something more about Junxia and his coach. Read if you please. It would be the way to get you out of ignorance about her path to that wr.

Do you like it or you don´t i keep on my own opinion that by the way is shared by many others, not just me.

I admit that Wang Junxia could run 29:31 drug free, but with one condition: ride a bike on 10000m.

Surprise Drug Tests in China

Published: December 25, 1993

BEIJING, Dec. 24 — Chinese female distance runners who surprised the track world with record-breaking times earlier this year were themselves surprised by being given unannounced drug tests.

A team sent by track's governing body, the International Amateur Athletic Federation, flew into northern Liaoning province last week to administer the tests to the women, including Wang Junxia, who set the world record for the 10,000 meters and 3,000 meters in September. The official Xinhua News Agency, which reported the visit, did not give the results of those tests.

Xinhua also reported that 24 athletes, including a former women's weight-lifting world-record holder, tested positive for use of performance-enhancing drugs this year. None of the female distance runners who repeatedly shattered world records was on the list issued by the Chinese Olympic Anti-drug Committee. Their performances during the year led to suspicion that they used performance-enhancing drugs, a claim heatedly denied by the runners and their coach.

Among the athletes who tested positive during the year were Xing Fen, the weight lifter who won a gold medal at the 1990 Asian Games, and shot-putter Zhou Tianhua, Xinhua said.

OLYMPICS; Chinese Withdraw 6 Runners And Coach

By JERE LONGMAN

Published: September 07, 2000

SYDNEY, Australia, Thursday, Sept. 7 — Ma Junren, the controversial coach of China's female distance runners, was removed from the Olympic team along with six of his athletes following suspicious results in domestic drug tests, Chinese officials said today.

A total of 27 Chinese athletes have been withdrawn from the Sydney Games for reasons that include failed drug tests, injury and illness, He Zhenliang, a member of the International Olympic Committee's executive board from China, said in an interview.

The official Xinhua news agency quoted a representative of the Chinese Olympic Committee as saying there were ''multiple reasons'' for the dismissal of Ma and his runners.

''Some of them are dropped due to suspicious blood test results,'' said the representative, He Huixian.

A representative for the Chinese track and field federation told The Associated Press in Beijing that six of seven runners that Ma trained had been removed ''because of blood tests.'' The most prominent of the runners was Dong Yanmei, the former world record-holder in the women's 5,000 meters.

Can Beijing 2008 possibly emerge untainted by doping? We doubt it...

What is more interesting to me is the emergence of another coach - Wang Dexian. The famous Chinese coach of the early 1990's was Ma Junren - he of the turtle blood excuse when three of his athletes tested positive for EPO! But this is a new name and I think the story highlights the massive problems the Chinese officials have.

To begin with, we assume that the officials are not complicit in doping, although it would not be the first time that a state-run programme produced results through systematic doping. But even assuming this, there are clearly massive problems. The Chinese system is so shrouded in mystery (to the West, anyway) that to know just what is going on is near impossible.

1500m

Qu Yunxia is 2 seconds faster than any runner not from China.

The four fastest times in history are all Chinese and all were set in 1993.

No one has run within 5 seconds of these times since then, and you know that the Eastern Europeans who used to hold the records here were tainted by drugs to begin with!

3000m

The Top 7 times in history belong to Chinese women.

All seven times were set in 1993.The next fastest person is a full 15 seconds behind the world record holder.

10 000m

Wang Junxia (also the holder of the 3000m WR) stands a full 30 seconds clear of the second fastest person in history

The record was also set in 1993, the year of the Turtle blood and caterpillar treatment

i'm sorry if you got wrong end of the stick

i shoudn't have put the "medicine" quote in

it was a simple request, no derogatory allusions intended

as for your ignorance about your own times at 400/800 at your 3'39 peak i am somewhat surprised

i'd expect 100% of elite western runners to know within +/- 0.25s what their best 800 ability was at their 1500m peak, from time trials or even discussion with coach regarding training performances

less idea probably about their 400 ability at the time, but again, usually a time trial is thrown in to gauge basic speed

as for my 400/1500 ability, i'm not a 3'39 guy, so of no interest

as for wang, prelim estimate from about a minute of inputting trial'n'error woud be :

55.75 / 1'57.50 ->3'50.6 , 5'13.6 , 8'03.5 , 13'53.6 , 29'02.1

her best distance was 3k, with probably 1500 next & likely 10k her "poorest" as i don't think her 3k or 1500 ability extended "perfectly" to 10k

Antonio Cabral wrote:

I did forget to take the medicine every time either. I did progress from 4:16 to 3:39 and I got a new pb 12 times in a row. In fact after move to a new pb I didn’t get back to so poor performances relate to my best as Wang Junxia did.

What is your 1500m time today?

Antonio Cabral wrote:

I did forget to take the medicine every time either. I did progress from 4:16 to 3:39 and I got a new pb 12 times in a row. In fact after move to a new pb I didn’t get back to so poor performances relate to my best as Wang Junxia did.

What is your 1500m time today?

It must be at least 3:39 or faster, since you never run any slower than before.

So all the female distance runners passed the surprise test, including Junxia Wang.

And this is your argument that they were on drugs.

J.R. wrote:

What is your 1500m time today?

It must be at least 3:39 or faster, since you never run any slower than before.

Funny how you ask the question and right after you do the answer.

However you are right. My pb was my last track run. Since that period until then i only run road runs and a few crosses. Toally dedicated to what i´m passion for, road runs.

J.R. wrote:

What is your 1500m time today?

It must be at least 3:39 or faster, since you never run any slower than before.

Antonio Cabral wrote:

Funny how you ask the question and right after you do the answer.

However you are right. My pb was my last track run. Since that period until then i only run road runs and a few crosses. Toally dedicated to what i´m passion for, road runs.

Well the answer was yours, that either you run faster every time or else you're on drugs. So I'm just wondering what your 1500m time is today.

It was the Chinese government that pulled the plug on this group before the 2000 Games. They did not want to be embarrassed.

Come on people. 4 Junior girls under 3:54 in 97 and then nothing in 2000. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out.

ShootJR wrote:

Stop showing your ignorance just because Aouita was a 1500m/5000m man and the others were 5000m/10000m doesn't mean they would run faster than him. Aoutia's only 10000m was off his 1500m/5000m training and if he trained for the 10000m he surely could have gone much faster.

Many people thought when he said would run the 800m it wouldn't be wise; however, didn't he defeat 800m specialist Joaquim Cruz (Olympic Champ), Jose Luis Barbosa, Peter Elliott, Johnny Gray (all of them sub 1:43 runners). He did that in only one season and posted a time of 1:43.86 while injuried.

Would have thought a 5000m runner could run 1:43.86 and grab a 800m Olympic bronze medal while injuried? NO noone thought a healthy Aouita had a chance in the 800m at the beginning of the season but he proved the world wrong.

Aouita focussed on the 800m in 1988. He wasn't injured when he set his 1:43.86 pb off very even splits in a loaded race which went through 400 in around 50 flat. He only became injured while in Seoul.

When he beat Cruz in 88, Aouita had been training as an 800/1500 runner. Cruz was coming back from injury and not at a peak. Aouita certainly would never, at any part of his career, have been anywhere near a Cruz from 84, or 85 for that matter.

I give Aouita 1:43 low potential at 800m tops. Of course thats magnificent for predominantly a 1500/5k runner, but he wouldn't have beaten Cruz at his best.

Aouita was better at 800 then he was at 5k.

He only had the WR for 5k because the record was weak.

No mention of a certain Henry Rono yet

I agree. Rono was dominant for quite some time.

deanouk wrote:

I give Aouita 1:43 low potential at 800m tops. Of course thats magnificent for predominantly a 1500/5k runner, but he wouldn't have beaten Cruz at his best.

Would you then give the runner in 2nd mid-1:43 potential, tops?

(His best time for this year, IIRC:

)