jim ryun ovetrained

Issues anyone? wrote:

So on the basis of just one performance under 3:35 (3:34.91) in a long and lengthy career, you have determined Keino to be a 3:30 1500 man!? Even though he never broke 3:36 again (or before to that matter) on cinders or synthetic.

Perhaps we can say the same for every other athlete who has a 3:35 pb!

Love this, and great point. How did 3:34.9 becomes 3:30.0?

here you go man wrote:Love this, and great point. How did 3:34.9 becomes 3:30.0?

1) ask ncaa tables

2) ask ryun who rated his 3'37 as ~ a similar time to his 3'33pb

ventolin^3 wrote:

here you go man wrote:Love this, and great point. How did 3:34.9 becomes 3:30.0?

1) ask ncaa tables

2) ask ryun who rated his 3'37 as ~ a similar time to his 3'33pb

No, no, no. Everyone responds differently to altitude, and all the available evidence suggests that--over the distance in question--Keino was hardly affected at all. We might think of him as a 3:34.5 guy, maybe even a 3:34.0 guy, but that's absolutely it. Of course, for Ryun, the 3:37.8 represented a terribly hard effort. But there's no one-to-one comparison here.

Issues anyone? wrote:So on the basis of just one performance under 3:35 (3:34.91) in a long and lengthy career, you have determined Keino to be a 3:30 1500 man!? Even though he never broke 3:36 again (or before to that matter) on cinders or synthetic.

Perhaps we can say the same for every other athlete who has a 3:35 pb!

err...

the concept of being judged on your pb ability alien to you ???

ask nicholas kemboi or dinkessa what calibre they regard themselves over 10k

as for keino, iirc the ncaa tables converted 3'34.9 to a 3'27 ( ! )

that is obviously far too optimistic, but certainly a 1/2 way house of 3'30 looks much nearer the mark

old tymer wrote:No, no, no. Everyone responds differently to altitude, and all the available evidence suggests that--over the distance in question--Keino was hardly affected at all. We might think of him as a 3:34.5 guy, maybe even a 3:34.0 guy, but that's absolutely it. Of course, for Ryun, the 3:37.8 represented a terribly hard effort. But there's no one-to-one comparison here.

no

altitude affected keino just as much as anyone else

otherwise he woud have been able to run a 13'30 solo ( 13'24pb ) & destroy the 5k field & not get outkicked in a 14'05

explain that

anyone with a clue about the sport think this represents the performance of a "mere" 3'34 guy :

ventolin^3 wrote:

err...

the concept of being judged on your pb ability alien to you ???

ask nicholas kemboi or dinkessa what calibre they regard themselves over 10k

as for keino, iirc the ncaa tables converted 3'34.9 to a 3'27 ( ! )

that is obviously far too optimistic, but certainly a 1/2 way house of 3'30 looks much nearer the mark

drivel

taking good friend bernie equation and adding mexico city altitude with velocity of keino at maximum effort, apply conversion factor 101/100, plug into stupidbullshitwebite.co.uk and we get Keino with maximum ability of

3:32.94

ventolin^3 wrote:

old tymer wrote:No, no, no. Everyone responds differently to altitude, and all the available evidence suggests that--over the distance in question--Keino was hardly affected at all. We might think of him as a 3:34.5 guy, maybe even a 3:34.0 guy, but that's absolutely it. Of course, for Ryun, the 3:37.8 represented a terribly hard effort. But there's no one-to-one comparison here.

no

altitude affected keino just as much as anyone else

otherwise he woud have been able to run a 13'30 solo ( 13'24pb ) & destroy the 5k field & not get outkicked in a 14'05

explain that

anyone with a clue about the sport think this represents the performance of a "mere" 3'34 guy :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ8OieCDOk8

OK, I'll play along.

You simply cannot say that "everyone" was affected equally by the altitude--and all the evidence of Keino's ACTUAL career at a mile & 1500m suggests that he was affected very little--if at all!--by altitude. Look at his career stats--it's a very interesting list of performances.

The 5000 results mean nothing in this discussion. I very clearly qualified my statement with the words "over the distance in question" and that distance was 1500m, not 5000. The 5000 is a different animal, physiologically. And there's no question that his 5000 was simply a poorer performance than his 1500--he simply wasn't the wonder runner on that day that he was on the day of the 1500 final. That's obvious.

You "believe" Keino's Mexico City performance made him equal to a 3:30 guy, but it's just your belief. Nothing whatever in Keino's actual competitive career suggests anything remotely like this.

eh ?

no one said everyone was equally affected by altitude

keino whupped dangerous germans in that field - guys with realistic hopes of gold before & germans leave nothing to chance - they wouda prepared assidously at altitude & adapted - & anyone can adapt to altitude if you spend enough time there

as for keino's performances, you forget his fantastic 3'53.1 mile in kisimu, obviously on dirt & almost certainly solo ( which i'd rate as pre-'68 as greatest 1500/mile performance ever behind ryun & superior to any of elliots/snell's exploits over those distances )

give that 4.0s conversion to synthetic -> that was a 3'49.1, converts to 1500 with 1.08 to 3'32.2 solo

he was better in '68, so he wouda been better than 3'32.2 shape in mexico

now kisimu is 3711' whereas nairobi is 5450'

here are best runs in nairobi ( synthetic )

- 3'32.82 - kiprop - the champ ( admittedly derisory 3'31.64pb, but always misses the fast races like silas' 3'29.2 )

- 3'33.1 - rotich - 3'29.91pb ( 3'47.65 also )

- 3'33.59 - keitany - 3'30.20pb

- 3'33.86 - gus choge - 3'29.47pb

- 3'34.28 - silas - 3'29.25pb

conclusion :

these guys ran a "similar" level performance to keino's mile in kisimu ( albeit that was 1700' lower but i doubt there is huge altitude disadvantage between the 2 ), they are almost certainly equally altitude adapted as keino & they are 3'29/3'30 calibre performers ( if you belive asbel is worth that also )

so what does that imply for keino ???

there is no "magic" distance where the physiological effect of altitude adversely affects one drastically more than the other

if keino was "immune" to altitude at 1500 & crushed the field, why wasn't he similarly immune to it at a proportioned level at 5k against a much weaker field ( he only feared ron, he'd expect to beat gammoudi 9 times out of 10 ( only expect to lose if he fell over ), & the assertion that he wasn't a 5k runner woud be nonsense as he was former wr holder & still 2nd fastest all-time ) ???

to assert altitude "unaffected" him at 1500 but not to a proportioned level at 5k is absurd

see kisimu above...

One day you are going to look back at this thread in disbelief and say to yourself "I wasted X minutes of my life arguing with Ventolin^3."

It happens to the best of us, but is a complete waste of your time and energy.

Any impartial observer (i.e. anyone not Ventolin^3) recognizes that you won the debate.

If you waste any more time arguing with Ventolin^3 then you will no longer be the "winner." There shall be two losers.

EDL wrote:

Any impartial observer (i.e. anyone not Ventolin^3) recognizes that you won the debate.

If you waste any more time arguing with Ventolin^3 then you will no longer be the "winner." There shall be two losers.

Wise words. Adios.

ventolin^3 wrote:

here are best runs in nairobi ( synthetic )

- 3'32.82 - kiprop - the champ ( admittedly derisory 3'31.64pb, but always misses the fast races like silas' 3'29.2 )

- 3'33.1 - rotich - 3'29.91pb ( 3'47.65 also )

- 3'33.59 - keitany - 3'30.20pb

- 3'33.86 - gus choge - 3'29.47pb

- 3'34.28 - silas - 3'29.25pb

conclusion :

This means little or nothing. Would anyone expect any of these athletes to even want to be at a peak running in Nairobi?

If half the yearly circuit was held at altitude, and they did this for several seasons, then you may have a big enough sample of races with which to compare. All the above listed athletes have run far more paced races at sea level than in Nairobi. The likelihood of running their fastest and nearest to their full potential is far greater running 40 odd races over 3 seasons at sea level than 2 or 3 runs at altitude in Nairobi.

Keino had a long and distinguished career and broke 3:35 (or Mile equivalent) once! Maybe with perfect pacing he could have improved a couple of seconds but there is nothing other than one person's opinion that he could run a whole 5 secs faster than his pb.

moron back under his 5th name i see

who the f*** said keino was anymore at his peak in kisimu than those guys ???

he ran it in september - hardly the peak time after a long season

keino ran few races in kenya - no more than those guys - the importance was racing abroad & beating foreigners

as for your statistical inference, as expected, they are idiotic

they have run races yearly in nairobi for years - there is a 20+y history of synthetic track races to draw upon - & these are usually the national championships, which means a lot to them

moron

look up these guys 1500pb & what their previous pb were

- hicham

- morceli

- bernie

- noah ( use his converted mile one )

- silas

- gus choge

- komen1 & 2

- maree

- coe

- cram

- aouita

as for keino, he was also 3k/5k wr holder - he ran a lot of races from all the distances from 1500 - 5k & didn't anally-retentitively run 1500/mile all year

you can dig up how many of those he ran annually...

moron

a significant chunk of his improvement was because before mexico, he had hardly, if ever run on a synthetic

Here are the 10 fastest performers in history over 1500 meters at altitude (taken from all-time athletics.com). Now, we can’t just compare their altitude pr’s to their lifetime pr’s. For one thing, most athletes will probably run at altitude only a handful of times. Also, most fast altitude times are in Nairobi, often at the Kenyan Trials which have no rabbits, and often earlier in the season.

What I’ve done is search for all sub-3:37.99 altitude performances from these top 10 athletes, then every year that there is such a mark I’ve listed all other sub-3:37.99 performances that year as well. The marks are in chronological order, and the idea is to use the context of all their yearly marks to figure out how fast they were that year.

For example, Rotich ran 3:33.1A and 3:29.91 in 1998. Does that mean the conversion should be 3.2 seconds? It’s really impossible to say. After all, that 3:33.1A came on June 6 and the 3:29.91 came on September 5. And in addition to these two marks, Rotich also ran 3:37, 3:33 three times, 3:32, and 3:30 twice. If Nairobi to Zurich is a 3.2 second conversion then perhaps Sheffield to Zurich is a 7 second conversion!

In general, I think this shows that most years most athletes will not run their season best at altitude. However, there are some anamolies - Kiprop came close in 2007 and 2009, Choge came close in 2004 & 2005, Kiptanui’s lifetime pr is actually at altitude from 1992, Gathimba came close in 2009, and Keino and Kibet do not appear to be substantially faster at sea level than altitude.

What does this all mean? I think it means rules of thumb and conversions are garbage. Rotich was much worse at altitude, but take a guy like Keino, and his fastest race in 1971 (out of four sub-3:38’s) was the one at altitude! Or Kibet’s 3:35.5A in 1992 fits in nicely with his two 3:37’s, five 3:36’s, and three other 3:35’s that year. You think that guy deserves a conversion? Really?

Take a look at these marks and judge for yourself:

Kiprop

2726 3:35.81 Asbel Kiprop Athínai 02.07.2007

2369 3:35.5A Asbel Kiprop Nairobi 28.07.2007

2143 3:35.24 Asbel Kiprop Osaka 29.08.2007

3340 3:36.3A Asbel Kiprop Nairobi 07.06.2008

3688 3:36.53A Asbel Kiprop Nairobi 04.07.2008

295 3:31.64 Asbel Kiprop Roma 11.07.2008

599 3:32.78 Asbel Kiprop Saint-Denis 18.07.2008

4478 3:37.04 Asbel Kiprop Beijing 17.08.2008

742 3:33.11 Asbel Kiprop Beijing 19.08.2008

3906 3:36.68 Asbel Kiprop Zürich 29.08.2008

4130 3:36.82 Asbel Kiprop Bruxelles 05.09.2008

6124 3:37.93 Asbel Kiprop Stuttgart 14.09.2008

1515 3:34.45 Asbel Kiprop Hengelo 01.06.2009

1499 3:34.43+ Asbel Kiprop Eugene 07.06.2009

220 3:31.20 Asbel Kiprop Roma 10.07.2009

616 3:32.82A Asbel Kiprop Nairobi 25.07.2009

3278 3:36.24 Asbel Kiprop Berlin 17.08.2009

3597 3:36.47 Asbel Kiprop Berlin 19.08.2009

1255 3:34.09 Asbel Kiprop Zürich 28.08.2009

437 3:32.22 Asbel Kiprop Shanghai 23.05.2010

1014 3:33.69A Asbel Kiprop Nairobi 26.06.2010

2202 3:35.30+ Asbel Kiprop Eugene 03.07.2010

838 3:33.34 Asbel Kiprop Gateshead 10.07.2010

3180 3:36.19A Asbel Kiprop Nairobi 01.08.2010

427 3:32.18 Asbel Kiprop Bruxelles 27.08.2010

320 3:31.78 Asbel Kiprop Rieti 29.08.2010

Rotich

3514 3:36.41 Laban Rotich Bellville 27.03.1996

4403 3:37.0A Laban Rotich Nairobi 24.04.1996

4891 3:37.3A Laban Rotich Nairobi 17.05.1996

1020 3:33.70 Laban Rotich Moskva 07.06.1996

3932 3:36.7A Laban Rotich Nairobi 27.06.1996

365 3:32.00 Laban Rotich Stockholm 08.07.1996

543 3:32.62 Laban Rotich Nice 10.07.1996

2812 3:35.88 Laban Rotich Atlanta 29.07.1996

1041 3:33.73 Laban Rotich Atlanta 01.08.1996

5056 3:37.39 Laban Rotich Atlanta 03.08.1996

701 3:33.01 Laban Rotich Zürich 14.08.1996

2120 3:35.21 Laban Rotich Köln 16.08.1996

1283 3:34.12 Laban Rotich Bruxelles 23.08.1996

193 3:31.06 Laban Rotich Rieti 01.09.1996

106 3:30.41 Laban Rotich Rehlingen 19.05.1997

5262 3:37.5+ Laban Rotich Eugene 25.05.1997

654 3:32.91 Laban Rotich Hengelo 31.05.1997

2097 3:35.19 Laban Rotich Saint-Denis 02.06.1997

2703 3:35.8A Laban Rotich Nairobi 07.06.1997

2935 3:36.0A Laban Rotich Nairobi 28.06.1997

506 3:32.51+ Laban Rotich Oslo 04.07.1997

85 3:30.13 Laban Rotich Stockholm 07.07.1997

849 3:33.36 Laban Rotich Monaco 16.08.1997

142 3:30.77 Laban Rotich Bruxelles 22.08.1997

1987 3:35.05+ Laban Rotich Berlin 26.08.1997

630 3:32.85 Laban Rotich Rieti 03.09.1997

738 3:33.1A Laban Rotich Nairobi 06.06.1998

403 3:32.12 Laban Rotich Oslo 09.07.1998

169 3:30.94 Laban Rotich Roma 14.07.1998

4463 3:37.03+ Laban Rotich Sheffield 02.08.1998

80 3:30.06 Laban Rotich Monaco 08.08.1998

71 3:29.91 Laban Rotich Zürich 12.08.1998

732 3:33.08 Laban Rotich Bruxelles 28.08.1998

1080 3:33.81 Laban Rotich Berlin 01.09.1998

714 3:33.04 Laban Rotich Moskva 05.09.1998

Kibowen

2202 3:35.3A John Kibowen Nairobi 09.05.1997

3484 3:36.4A John Kibowen Nairobi 07.06.1997

799 3:33.27 John Kibowen Helsinki 18.06.1997

3647 3:36.5A John Kibowen Nairobi 28.06.1997

742 3:33.11+ John Kibowen Oslo 04.07.1997

229 3:31.24 John Kibowen Stockholm 07.07.1997

108 3:30.44 John Kibowen Nice 16.07.1997

417 3:32.15 John Kibowen Zürich 13.08.1997

343 3:31.94 John Kibowen Monaco 16.08.1997

209 3:31.15 John Kibowen Bruxelles 22.08.1997

745 3:33.12 John Kibowen Köln 24.08.1997

1180 3:33.99 John Kibowen Ad-Dawhah 07.05.1998

812 3:33.3A John Kibowen Nairobi 06.06.1998

4722 3:37.20A John Kibowen Nairobi 04.07.1998

195 3:31.08 John Kibowen Roma 14.07.1998

141 3:30.76 John Kibowen Stuttgart 19.07.1998

102 3:30.36 John Kibowen Monaco 08.08.1998

87 3:30.18 John Kibowen Zürich 12.08.1998

2991 3:36.04 John Kibowen Lausanne 25.08.1998

4031 3:36.76 John Kibowen Berlin 01.09.1998

984 3:33.64 John Kibowen Moskva 05.09.1998

Keitany

2143 3:35.24 Haron Keitany Dessau 30.05.2008

1688 3:34.68+ Haron Keitany Oslo 06.06.2008

5816 3:37.78A Haron Keitany Nairobi 04.07.2008

3157 3:36.17 Haron Keitany Heusden-Zolder 20.07.2008

385 3:32.06 Haron Keitany Zürich 29.08.2008

974 3:33.62 Haron Keitany Lausanne 02.09.2008

4074 3:36.80 Haron Keitany Bruxelles 05.09.2008

6108 3:37.92 Haron Keitany Stuttgart 14.09.2008

159 3:30.90 Haron Keitany Ad-Dawhah 08.05.2009

1434 3:34.34+ Haron Keitany Eugene 07.06.2009

88 3:30.20 Haron Keitany Berlin 14.06.2009

2091 3:35.18+ Haron Keitany Ostrava 17.06.2009

950 3:33.59A Haron Keitany Nairobi 25.07.2009

4630 3:37.13 Haron Keitany Berlin 15.08.2009

Choge

4722 3:37.2A Augustine Choge Nairobi 15.05.2004

5656 3:37.7A Augustine Choge Kampala 30.05.2004

3853 3:36.64 Augustine Choge Heusden-Zolder 31.07.2004

1783 3:34.8A Augustine Choge Nairobi 07.05.2005

1180 3:33.99 Augustine Choge Sevilla 04.06.2005

275 3:31.57 Augustine Choge Berlin 01.06.2008

1515 3:34.45+ Augustine Choge Oslo 06.06.2008

3514 3:36.41A Augustine Choge Nairobi 04.07.2008

475 3:32.40 Augustine Choge Saint-Denis 18.07.2008

2344 3:35.47 Augustine Choge Beijing 15.08.2008

5350 3:37.54 Augustine Choge Beijing 17.08.2008

2369 3:35.50 Augustine Choge Beijing 19.08.2008

155 3:30.88 Augustine Choge Ad-Dawhah 08.05.2009

52 3:29.47 Augustine Choge Berlin 14.06.2009

1313 3:34.16+ Augustine Choge Oslo 03.07.2009

1104 3:33.86A Augustine Choge Nairobi 25.07.2009

3541 3:36.43 Augustine Choge Berlin 17.08.2009

3688 3:36.53 Augustine Choge Berlin 19.08.2009

862 3:33.38 Augustine Choge Zürich 28.08.2009

2342 3:35.46 Augustine Choge Thessaloníki 13.09.2009

Kiptanui

2703 3:35.8A Moses Kiptanui Nairobi 11.05.1991

6124 3:37.93 Moses Kiptanui Sevilla 30.05.1991

2279 3:35.40 Moses Kiptanui Monaco 03.08.1991

2310 3:35.42 Moses Kiptanui Rieti 06.09.1991

5851 3:37.8A Moses Kiptanui Nairobi 23.05.1992

3932 3:36.7A Moses Kiptanui Nairobi 23.05.1992

1191 3:34.0A Moses Kiptanui Nairobi 13.06.1992

5598 3:37.67A Moses Kiptanui Nairobi 27.05.1995

1805 3:34.82 Moses Kiptanui London 07.07.1995

Kiplagat

5851 3:37.8A Silas Kiplagat Nairobi 26.06.2010

1386 3:34.28A Silas Kiplagat Nairobi 26.06.2010

44 3:29.27 Silas Kiplagat Monaco 22.07.2010

4011 3:36.74A Silas Kiplagat Nairobi 01.08.2010

122 3:30.61 Silas Kiplagat Berlin 22.08.2010

2369 3:35.50 Silas Kiplagat Villeneuve d'Ascq 24.08.2010

356 3:31.97 Silas Kiplagat Rieti 29.08.2010

Gathimba

978 3:33.63 Gideon Gathimba Rabat 14.06.2008

6223 3:37.98A Gideon Gathimba Nairobi 04.07.2008

5168 3:37.44 Gideon Gathimba Tangiers 13.07.2008

2556 3:35.68 Gideon Gathimba Barcelona 19.07.2008

1041 3:33.73 Gideon Gathimba Monaco 29.07.2008

2279 3:35.40 Gideon Gathimba Zürich 29.08.2008

1201 3:34.01 Gideon Gathimba Lausanne 02.09.2008

1645 3:34.61 Gideon Gathimba Rieti 07.09.2008

4500 3:37.05 Gideon Gathimba Zagreb 09.09.2008

1171 3:33.97 Gideon Gathimba Ad-Dawhah 08.05.2009

4450 3:37.02 Gideon Gathimba Hengelo 01.06.2009

1724 3:34.72 Gideon Gathimba Thessaloníki 10.06.2009

1273 3:34.11 Gideon Gathimba Berlin 14.06.2009

4347 3:36.97+ Gideon Gathimba Ostrava 17.06.2009

4130 3:36.82 Gideon Gathimba Roma 10.07.2009

1817 3:34.83A Gideon Gathimba Nairobi 25.07.2009

3615 3:36.48 Gideon Gathimba Rieti 06.09.2009

3432 3:36.36 Gideon Gathimba Thessaloníki 13.09.2009

Keino

1877 3:34.91A Kipchoge Keino Ciudad de México 20.10.1968

4891 3:37.3A Kipchoge Keino South Lake Tahoe 12.09.1969

4249 3:36.9 Kipchoge Keino Århus 23.06.1971

5262 3:37.5 Kipchoge Keino Durham 17.07.1971

4074 3:36.8A Kipchoge Keino Nairobi 15.08.1971

4722 3:37.2 Kipchoge Keino München 05.09.1971

Kibet

4191 3:36.86 David Kibet Sevilla 30.05.1991

1962 3:35.02 David Kibet Getxo 29.06.1991

4857 3:37.28 David Kibet Luzern 06.07.1991

6162 3:37.95 David Kibet London 12.07.1991

5452 3:37.6A David Kibet Nairobi 27.07.1991

2301 3:35.41 David Kibet Malmö 05.08.1991

2980 3:36.03 David Kibet Tokyo 01.09.1991

2006 3:35.08 David Kibet Rieti 06.09.1991

3615 3:36.48 David Kibet Köln 08.09.1991

5971 3:37.85 David Kibet Dakar 18.04.1992

5262 3:37.5A David Kibet Nairobi 23.05.1992

2369 3:35.5A David Kibet Nairobi 13.06.1992

3033 3:36.08 David Kibet Edinburgh 19.06.1992

3054 3:36.1A David Kibet Nairobi 01.07.1992

4276 3:36.92 David Kibet London 10.07.1992

3384 3:36.32 David Kibet Barcelona 03.08.1992

2736 3:35.82 David Kibet Barcelona 06.08.1992

2681 3:35.78 David Kibet Köln 16.08.1992

2833 3:35.90 David Kibet Bruxelles 28.08.1992

3571 3:36.45 David Kibet Bologna 09.09.1992

2301 3:35.41 David Kibet Roma 05.06.1996

2833 3:35.90 David Kibet Moskva 07.06.1996

4722 3:37.2A David Kibet Nairobi 27.06.1996

5418 3:37.58+ David Kibet Oslo 05.07.1996

2310 3:35.42 David Kibet Lappeenranta 14.07.1996

2390 3:35.51 David Kibet Zürich 14.08.1996

1914 3:34.96 David Kibet Rieti 01.09.1996

researcher wrote:Rotich was much worse at altitude, but take a guy like Keino, and his fastest race in 1971 (out of four sub-3:38’s) was the one at altitude!

now do some proper analysis

his best was 3'36.8 in nairobi in '71 at 5400'

he ran 3'34.91 in '68 at much higher altitude, more than 2s faster if you add auto-time to nairobi

does he defy all normal human laws & get faster at 1500 the more extreme the altitude ???

or was he simply in the best 1500 shape of his life in mexico ???

ventolin^3 wrote:

1) ask ncaa tables

By the way, this is laughable. Nairobi is at 5500 ft. The closet NCAA city is Golden, CO at 5675 ft. The NCAA gives 6.28 seconds (!) to a 3:54.08 Golden, CO runner, bringing him down to 3:47.80.

Even if we adjust that 6.28 seconds to make it proportional to elite level runners, look how silly that would make Kibet's 1992:

3:37.85

3:37.5A --> goes to 3:31.66

3:35.5A --> goes to 3:29.72!

3:36.08

3:36.1A --> goes to 3:30.30

3:36.92

3:36.32

3:35.82

3:35.78

3:35.90

3:36.45

So amid the sea of 3:35's, 3:36's, and 3:37's, we've artificially injected a 3:29, 3:30, and 3:31! Ludicrous.

ventolin^3 wrote:

or was he simply in the best 1500 shape of his life in mexico ???

Sure, that's the obvious conclusion, and I agree with that. But as stated above how does 3:34.9 become 3:30?

eh ?

he had a 3'32.13pb & beat morceli over a mile

any guy who beat a prime morceli in a wabbited race was damn fast !

like i said before, 1/2 the ncaa conversion looks good

it appears their method takes into account the lower O2 for aerobic part of race but ignored reduced air resistance which speeds it up

moron

your peabrain can offer nothing but drivel

oh chit i'm talking to myself

researcher wrote:Sure, that's the obvious conclusion, and I agree with that. But as stated above how does 3:34.9 become 3:30?

try here for a start