Marathon Training Thread - Week Ending 4/18

marmite wrote:

AJ - can we change your name to "Mr Metronome"? Astonishingly even pace and well, well under your target. Fantastic running.

Hah! In track practice, they call me "The clock"!

Pittsburgh Joe wrote:

I just came across this:

http://jimrhoades.com/10/boston/

Check it out. I found about 6 pics of myself. Jim Rhoades, wherever you are. You are the man.

Thanks, Marmite! I agree, everyone deserves a huge congrats for running gutsy races. And thanks to everyone for sharing their training, the hi's and the lo's. I am def going to keep posting as I plan for Chicago.

Jim is a friend of mine. Really good guy. He puts on a local 5k up on Lowell every year on SuperBowl Sunday that I always make a point of running. He's a damn good runner too.

BTW, this is me in one of his shots, beginning to suffer at 30k

So I'm already pumped up for Chicago. I can't wait to get out there again! My legs are still shot (quads only) but I'm itching. I'm going to Europe for work all next week (assuming I get through the plume) so it will be an easy week to get through without running. Then its back to the grind.

Right now I'm signed up for the Brooklyn Half Marathon on May 22nd. Not sure if I will do it or not... it will probably be a decision I make the day before, but think with 2 weeks off, and 3 weeks of easy mileage, I may actually be able to go out and run decent. We'll see. Then its train train train!

Pablo, no Chicago for you this year? I thought that was on the agenda? What are everyone else's plans for the summer/fall?

My tentative plan is to work up to 100-105 by mid to late June, with a down week every 3rd-4th week of 80-90 (with a day off). I'll probably hold off on any workouts (other then strides and an occasional progression run) until late July/August. In between, I have a local 5k in Saratoga Springs in late July, NYC Club Champs (a 5 Miler) in August, and the Philly Distance Classic Half in September. Then its Chicago!

I'll probably follow a plan similar to my NY one (starting workouts late, not much as far as V02Max work... more 1/2MP and MP work). I also want to get 1 workout where I run 15-16 at MP and another where I run 20 at MP+10 sec. The furthest I have ever gone at MP or close to, other then in the race itself, has been 13.1.

I can't believe I'm so psyched, but Boston really makes me want to redeem myself. Despite not having an ideal build-up, quite a few physical issues, and horrible races leading up, I still know I was ready to go. Certainly far more ready then I was for NY. I'm determined to run Chicago even, and plan on still going for 2:35. A very small part of me says shoot for sub 2:40... but that's not the way I roll. If I'm going to do this, I'm going to do it going for what I think is possible, not what I think is probable. Not going to take the safe/conservative route. Clearly if the training isn't there, I'll re-evaluate, but as of April 23rd, 2010, no reason to think that I won't be ready.

My plan is:

A. 2 week recovery (Maybe run Long Island Half Marathon on May 2nd).

B. 9 week Daniels 5k-15k training. Keep mileage 60-65mpw. Run a slew of races from 4k-10k. Get faster.

C. 3 week HADD base buildup. Work up to near 80 mpw.

D. Start July 25th. Pfitz 12/85+ for goal race BayState Oct. 17th. I will do a steeper than normal taper for this race as if the weather is bad on the 17th I will not even go and will then...

E. Run NYC on Nov 7th. This will either be a victory lap for breaking 2:50 at BayState or an attempt to break 2:50.

I do have Reach The Beach in there Sept 17-18. (This is my first time doing a relay race, so hopefully it won't kill the training). I will also probably run the Cow Harbor 10k on Sept. 25.

I found last summer that doubling in August up here is tough when I plan on doing most of my 2nd runs during lunch at work. I remember last August is was repeatedly near 90 and humid every day. Not fun.

Another, you're a long island guy, right? Do you work in the city?

Another wrote:

I found last summer that doubling in August up here is tough when I plan on doing most of my 2nd runs during lunch at work. I remember last August is was repeatedly near 90 and humid every day. Not fun.

Tell me about it, that's the sole reason why it's so difficult to train for a fall marathon in Florida.

3TM - No Chicago for me unless I can get the 1:11/2:31 before the September 1st deadline. That's highly unlikely because of the lack of marathons/half marathons over the summer. I haven't signed up for Twin Cities yet, but a few buddies already did and odds are is I'll sign up this weekend.

Don't have any real plans for summer, other than a few local 5k's. Again, Florida in summertime absolutely sucks...the only distance offered is 5k from about now through September (rightfully so).

But I am thinking of dropping the mileage a bit the next marathon. Number one, because I simply don't think it's possible to put in 120+ weeks here in July and August, and number two, I may have overdone the mileage for Boston. While I never felt burned out during training, I'm wondering if I really needed that kind of mileage. I figure if I hang around 100-110, I can nail my workouts without feeling dead. I don't know, just experimentation I suppose.

I've also recieved advice that it's likely I crashed the last 3-4 miles in Boston due to fueling/hydration issues. I completely agree. I KNOW that it wasn't the lack of mileage that caused the meltdown, but perhaps I need to utilize more gels and water/gatorade next time (only used 2 gels during Boston).

Sounds like a plan, Pablo. The one piece of advice I would give you is to NOT give up on the high mileage. If you can do it , I would. Looking at your logs, your workouts didn't suffer a ton. As a coach for a decent amount of time, one of the biggest mistakes I have seen is people giving high mileage a try for 6 months, running not what they expected, and then dropping back down. Remember, its a cumulative effect that may take 12 months, 18 months to see the benefits from. 6 months seems like a long time to us, but to the body and its response to adaptation, its a very short amount of time.

As you adapt to the mileage, your workouts will naturally get faster and you will be a different beast out there. If its been 2 years of high mileage (that 120 range) and you don't see massive changes, then change it up. I would seriously consider giving it a try for that long, though, before you give up on it. What's the worst thing that happens? You'll be what, 26 and have a monster base of 2 years at your back? Besides, I think that within 2 years, if you stay healthy, you'll be a low 2:20s guy. Although who knows what the limit may be? Trials? Faster? Slower? Boston taught both of us there is no guarantee, I suppose.

I'm all for experimentation, but I don't think there was anything "wrong" with your Boston prep. Probably lacked some course specific work, and like you said, probably had fuel problems.

Anyway, just my opinion.

PABLO: I am wondering why you would only run Chicago if you hit the "Development" corral marks. Was starting in the 1st corral that bad? For me hitting 1:11 would be very tough and I don't think I want to do the specific training to hit that kind of pace (5:25s). Not to mention I'd have to travel to find a flat HM. I am toying with the idea of a ~2:30 attempt in Chicago, BTW.

3TM - Nope I work at the Nassau/Suffolk border and live about 40 miles east of that. I rarely go into the city...

Pitts - It could be that he didn't register for Chicago and the only way he can get in is through the Elite Development program?

Pittsburgh Joe wrote:

PABLO: I am wondering why you would only run Chicago if you hit the "Development" corral marks. Was starting in the 1st corral that bad?

Not at all, last year it only took me 4 seconds to cross the start line. I said that because Chicago is now full, and the ONLY way for me to get in is through the Top 100. Twin Cities is not full (yet) and it's a race that I would like to try.

BTW Average_Joe thanks for the Jim Rhoades pictures.

Here's me all alone at mile 20...still feeling good, not for long though.

Whoops, wrong link.

http://jimrhoades.com/10/boston/20m/image255.html

3rd times the charm

http://jimrhoades.com/10/boston/20m/image225.html

Great to hear you guys are already fired-up for the next one.

Think you know that I'm targeting Berlin this year. This will be my 14th marathon and 3rd Berlin. Started 12 weeks of base-phase last week. Doing three 4 week blocks consisting of 3 weeks of high (for me) mileage followed by a cut-back week. Although racing during the base-phase isn't usually suggested, think I'll race during the cut-back weeks just to stop me from getting bored. Following that, will do 10 weeks marathon-specific training and a 2 week taper. Really want to get back over that side of the pond and do Boston and Chicago again, ran those whilst living in the US (2001 and 1998, respectively) but if I can crack 2:30 in September then I'll definitely be heading to NYC for 2011.

Hope you all keep posting, interested to see how you undertake the post-Boston recovery and then structure your training from there.

Some great pics - looks like you're wearing Adizero Ace's Pablo, excellent shoes.

Goal Race: Grandmas

Goal Time: 2:45

M - 10 miles easy 7:10 pace

T - 14.5 miles 8x1k at 3:14 with equal recovery (jog 450 meters)

W - 7 miles 6:55 pace

R - 12 miles 4 miles at 5:59 pace

F - 7 miles 7:00 pace

S - 6 miles 6:45 pace

S - 20.5 miles (2 hrs 11 min 34 sec) felt relaxed and went out 1:07 and came back 1:04

Weekly total: 77 miles

Grandmas will be my first marathon as well as a previous poster. I'm hoping to run 2:45 or faster but not really sure what I'm capable of. This is my first season after after graduating college and after competing for a university team. A little background is my 5k pr (last year) 15:32 and 10k pr is 33:32.

next week miles goal: 82

marmite wrote:

Great to hear you guys are already fired-up for the next one.

Think you know that I'm targeting Berlin this year. This will be my 14th marathon and 3rd Berlin.

Me too. Definitely looking forward to it. If I run into you, I'll buy you a beer.

I'm the slow one here but I am doing Berlin as well.

First time. Very excited about it. I would love to hit 2:55 but this is way too early to call a serious goal. As readers of this thread know, anything can happen!

Like Pablo, I will be in a region with a very hot and humid July and August which will be smack at the heart of the Berlin marathon buildup -- so this will be interesting! I will probably have to do much running on the treadmill or wake up at 4am. Probably will be difficult to find tune-up races.

Starting May 24, I will do a Pfitz 18 week 70-85mpw program.

I will probably scale the numbers down a bit, e.g. i may take an off day here and there. For the next 4 weeks, will just do 60mpw with a 12-14 mile long run,some LT work, and some speed (today i did 16x300).

Good luck to all. Keep the thread alive!

I actually like training in the summer. I routinely run, post lunch, at 1:00 PM in the middle of NYC heat and humidity. Doesn't really bother me. I like it much better then bundling up for the 18-30 degree temps of winter!

I think it's interesting that some folks have a vivid memory of the race and can provide mile by mile reports, while some have vague details at best...I'm usually in the second group.

Here are my splits. I definately faded a bit more than I have in my other two marathons, but I'm fine with that given the course.

1 6:37

2 6:32

3 6:30

4 6:32

5 6:47

6 6:40

7 6:39

8 6:43

9 6:43

10 6:45

11 6:45

12 6:38

13 6:41

14 6:44

15 6:49

16 6:35

17 6:57

18 6:56

19 6:47

20 6:54

21 6:59

22 6:32

23 6:41

24 6:39

25 6:42

26 6:40

0.42 2:44

2:57:24

My calves were getting tight fairly early in the race and I could tell the downhills were taking their toll as well. At about mile 23 or 24, things ceased to be enjoyable and I was ready for the finish line. I tried to pick it up after the Newton hills, but there just wasn't anything there. I tried to stay as relaxed and controlled as possible during the first third of the race and at points was afraid I was running too easy, but the splits were good and I'm glad I didn't push too hard or the last few miles might have been ugly. It was nice being able to pass quite a few folks in Newton and I too was surprised at the number of people pulling off to the side and walking. I was doing about 7:15 - 7:30 pace up Heartbreak but it felt faster given the effort level required and average pace of some of the folks around me.

Again, a big congratulations to all who ran. I think I'm going to have to give Boston another try at some point down the road. I've got the first rug rat on the way, so who knows when the chance will come around again...next year, 10 years, ???...