Perhaps its thef act of the competition that she now has racing over in europe getting into meets that she never would have even tried to get into before.....think symmonds from a few years back.
Also Am I wrong or is she not actually Guarenteed a spot at Worlds if Geena or Pheobe get the A standard.
i dropped my 800 pr from 2:03.6 my soph year in high school to 1:58.0 in 1 race my junior year. no drugs. if you have 52/53 400 speed, which i did then and i believe she does now, it's not that crazy to drop that much time in 1 race.
Cat Mandu wrote:
I were as cynical and negative as some of the people on this board are, I would shoot myself.
This got a guffaw from me.
just saying it so wrote:
i dropped my 800 pr from 2:03.6 my soph year in high school to 1:58.0 in 1 race my junior year. no drugs. if you have 52/53 400 speed, which i did then and i believe she does now, it's not that crazy to drop that much time in 1 race.
You're a guy. It's easier to drop big chunks of time when you're operating well below world class.
As someone said. This is equivalent to (perhaps even more dramatic) as Ramzi's 3.39 to 3.30.
Unf***ingbelievable!!!!!!!! You people suck sweaty donkey balls! I cannot believe this.
Now everybody in the f***ing world must be on drugs! Right? All you assholes who have been so protective of american runners but think every african is doping are now attacking an american who has finally succeeded?! what the f*** is wrong with you people?
Mr. Stashe, nicely put. I concur!
Do you think Calvin Borel is Vessey's new coach. Non Kentucky Derby fans won't get this one.
lkjhjhlkjhlkjhlkjh wrote:
3) The four seconds from 2:02 to 1:58 are way harder to shave than those from 2:06 to 2:02, and she did it in one sixth of the time.
this type of "fact" gets repeated all of the time on these boards, but there's absolutely no evidence for it. yes, the 4 second drop from 2:02 to 1:58 is a slightly larger percentage than that from 2:06 to 2:02. it is not "way harder." most athletes don't improve in a linear fashion, because most athletes aren't able to perform at 100% of their fitness level in every race. they get stuck for while, make a big jump, move backwards, get stuck again, etc., etc. even if an athlete's fitness improves in a linear fashion (which is also incredibly rare), their performances seldom do. big jumps are a part of racing, just like plateaus and poor performances.
every jackass iaaf and usatf official that ignored blatant doping for decades should be sentenced to read these message boards for the rest of their lives. if they hadn't been so incompetent, great performances like this could be accepted for what (in my opinion) they are.
good point 113. Improvement is not always linear. Look at Christin Wurth-Thomas this year. Huge jump down in the 1500. Look at Rowbury last year, huge jump down in the 1500. Vessey this year, huge jump down in the 800.
One thing in common - finally being able to put it all togehter. Vessey and Rowbury both has bouts with serious injury, and Vessey herself admitted she was nowhere near as dedicated as she could have been for a number of years after leaving college. CWT didn't have quite the injury issues that the other two did, but she did have some, and she had confidence and weight issues, according to some more recent interviews she's given. Putting large blocks of uninterrupted training together, along with the confidence to run to your potential can lead to huge improvements in performance for anyone over the span of a year or a season.
Ruth Wysocki, who posts on this board, and who was world class back inthe late 70s-early 80s has said herself that she made great improvements in her late 20s, near 30, and that she did not break 2:00 until she was 28. She eventually ran 1:58 I believe.
so, you can analyzed PR improvement year by year for Vessey all you want, but you must consider how many of those years she was A) training well, B) actually competning in good meets, and C) uninjured.
T Clubber wrote:
I feel like it must really suck to be the sort of person who sees an awesome performance and immediately concludes, "she must be on drugs"
POD
trollism wrote:
just saying it so wrote:i dropped my 800 pr from 2:03.6 my soph year in high school to 1:58.0 in 1 race my junior year. no drugs. if you have 52/53 400 speed, which i did then and i believe she does now, it's not that crazy to drop that much time in 1 race.
You're a guy. It's easier to drop big chunks of time when you're operating well below world class.
As someone said. This is equivalent to (perhaps even more dramatic) as Ramzi's 3.39 to 3.30.
and your source that says it's easier for a male to drop 6 seconds in an 800 year over year is?
She's not stupid, she's not on drugs, and she's got a lot more in the tank. She has never trained like she does now. She moved with ease in that Monaco race just like she has in other races this year. The key for her was going out a bit faster and being in contention to win it with a lap to go. If she believes in herself you're looking at the next American record holder. I say she is sub 1:56 right now.
just saying it so wrote:
trollism wrote:You're a guy. It's easier to drop big chunks of time when you're operating well below world class.
As someone said. This is equivalent to (perhaps even more dramatic) as Ramzi's 3.39 to 3.30.
and your source that says it's easier for a male to drop 6 seconds in an 800 year over year is?
The key operative in his post was "when you're operating well below world class". It would be just as easy for a girl to go from 2:26 to 2:20. Vessey's drop is similar to 1:48 to 1:43 in one year.
GBP wrote:
You people need to relax. Her running this fast, frankly, makes sense. Lets look at this step by step:
1. She has the talent - 2nd at the NCAAs in 2:03.10. Plus, it's impressive that she's able to do it from a small school.
2. Unfortunately, she doesn't get sponsored. Running without a sponsor means she doesn't have the chances that a lot of other athletes have, including getting into faster meets, which would have helped her drop her time earlier in her pro career. Plus, she's gotta work a job and split her focus.
3. 2008 is an Olympic year and she goes into it focused on improving and being ready for Nationals. She strings together several good races, progressing in a reasonable way throughout the spring and early summer before Nationals. She runs her season a lot like a college athlete would - starting slow in March at a small invite, moving on into the Stanford meets with faster competition in April and May, and continuing on into June.
4. She finally has a breakout race in 2008 at Nationals, getting 5th and setting a pr of 2:02.01. This is the perfect race to show someone with her talent that she can compete for a spot on the US team and perfect motivation going into 2009. This is also her last race of 2008, as she didn't go to Europe. If she had, she'd possibly have lowered her pr by more in 2008. Remember, she's not sponsored and doesn't have the opportunities to seek out faster times abroad like a lot of athletes.
5. Getting 5th at Nationals allowed her to get into some bigger domestic races for the first time in her career in 2009, like Reebok and Pre. Taking the confidence she gained from the year before, she realizes she's able to run with better competition and does. She runs a pr in May of 2:01.49 for 4th at Reebok. Again, this was her first chance to run in a major invite.
6. Then she gets the opportunity to run against the best field of her life, to date, at Pre. Taking the confidence she has gained from Nationals last year and Reebok and a perfect race setup, she's able to win in 2:00.18. The race really did break perfectly for her. She was forced to run harder on that 600 than she had ever run in a race before to keep in somewhat of contention, even if she was still far behind, then was able to just turn off her mind and kick. This race gave her even more confidence, but more importantly, a chance to go to Europe for the first time in her career as she now has a competitive time.
7. At Nationals she runs terribly in the final, clearly mentally out of it and tactically ridiculous, but is still able to kick for 4th, with some hope of making it to Worlds.
8. She goes to Europe for the first time in her career and is able to get into bigger and faster meets than she has ever been in. Now she's in the perfect position of being in a field to help drag her along, with the confidence that she can run with those girls, but without much pressure. She continues to run a slow first 400, but is able to get two victories both in pr's.
9. Now she faces the pressure to run sub 2:00 as neither of the other girls ahead of her at Nationals have the A standard, thus keeping the door open for her to go to Worlds. It's her one poor race as she feels the pressure, like she did at Nationals.
10. In Monaco she rebounds from that poor race and just runs relaxed and most importantly A FAST AND TACTICALLY SMARTER FIRST 400! It's the first fast (sub 60) opening 400 she has ever run in her life. It actually puts her in position to run a fast time.
11. She'd been running such a damn slow first 400 for so long that she couldn't possibly run that fast of an 800. She didn't have the confidence to go out harder or, frankly, the balls to do it till now.
To me, her progress makes a lot of sense. This season happened because of last season. Her 5th place at Nationals last year got her into drastically better meets than she'd ever been in. Those meets were early in the year - Reebok and Pre. Getting into those better races and running well at them allowed her to, for the first time in her career, continue her season on into the summer and European circuit. It's likely that she would have dropped her time by more last year, if she had gotten the chance to race in Europe, which would have made the amount of time dropped this year smaller. This is what happens when a talented person finally gets both the confidence to compete and the competition needed to run fast times. Plus, you can't run a fast 800 if your first 400 doesn't put you in position to do so. For the first time in her life she finally had the perfect combination of confidence, a fast race, and a f*ck it mentality to run a big time pr. Congrats to her!
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This is rational, logical, and makes total sense.
But 80% of the posters on Lets run are irrational. illogical, and make no sense.
I grew up with Maggie and ran with her in high school. She's actually quite brilliant. She just has the incredible ability to not take herself too seriously and she enjoys life. I always appreciated her ability to keep everything in perspective. Give her a break...she's absolutely elated in the interviews, rightfully so. I don't think I'd know what to say if I just realized I was the BEST IN THE WORLD!
lkjhjhlkjhlkjhlkjh wrote:
just saying it so wrote:and your source that says it's easier for a male to drop 6 seconds in an 800 year over year is?
The key operative in his post was "when you're operating well below world class". It would be just as easy for a girl to go from 2:26 to 2:20. Vessey's drop is similar to 1:48 to 1:43 in one year.
again, based on what besides your unsupported opinion? i went from 2:03 to 1:58 in 1 race and topped out at 1:55. i wasn't a world class 800 meter runner and that was the best i could do. i see her drop as being extremely similar to mine with her end range probably in the 1:55 area as well. the fact that other guys run 1:41 is completely irrelevant to the fact that i made that kind of progress in 1 race and topped out very far from world class. if i eventually wound up running 1:45, i could see your argument (somewhat), but i didn't.
The pertinent question is, at the age of 27, did you cut 4.17 off your pb for an event that you had competed in for years following a top class college career?
This would be similar to a 1:49 800 meter guy at age 27 knocking out a 1:45, with a base 400 speed of 48 for the 400. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm saying this is the nature of the animal under discussion.
She was a sprinter early on. What if JW ran the 800 and jut 10 seconds off his PR?She had no sponsor. She was not running on tracks that are nearly as fast as those on the top level of the circuit. And her best races where in tactical affairs like NCAAs, not in 'time-fests'.Finally, Jelimo, a previously 400m runner, dropped her PR from 2+ to 1:54.0x last year; so this is nothing by comparison. Both in their first year with sponsorship.
take a look wrote:
The pertinent question is, at the age of 27, did you cut 4.17 off your pb for an event that you had competed in for years following a top class college career?
This would be similar to a 1:49 800 meter guy at age 27 knocking out a 1:45, with a base 400 speed of 48 for the 400. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I'm saying this is the nature of the animal under discussion.
Im pretty sure its different for men and women. Its ridiculous to drop that much time when you are already that fast. Not a big deal to drop 5 seconds when you are running a slow 800. Think of a male dropping from 147 to 143 even.
Out of 10 runners, 4 ran PR's and 4 ran season best, the other 2 both dipped did sub 2 and one of those was a fraction off her pr
The race was obviously at the right pace and in ideal conditions. So the improvement isn't as big as it looks
I knew a guy knocked 2 seconds of his pr at age 30 and he was a junior international so had all those years to get it right, but took it him even longer
http://www.thepowerof10.info/athletes/profile.aspx?athleteid=949
Before you ask, no way was he on drugs, I trained with him for a while & was always amazed he wasn't doing better in races as we was something else
Get behind you runners, I thought it was us Brits who were supposed to be cynical!