john the smythe wrote:
Surnames for European people have only been around for 1,000 years. It's not that long if you think about it. If you have English heritage, your family in the 1500s might not have even had a surname or it wasn't a surname that was passed on to children.
um...almost everyone in Europe had two names then, unless you were abjectly poor.
If your ancestors had two names back then...they mattered. If they didn't they were gutter trash.
Runners who are/were married who never changed their names:
Shalane Flanagan
Jen Rhines
Patti Sue Plumer
Judi St. Hilaire
Lynn Jennings
Runners who did change their names and who remarried multiple times:
Mary Decker Tabb Slaney
Kim Seeley Rosenquist Jones Sinclair
Women who don't take their husband's last name or do a hyphanated last name are making a direct challenge to the authority of the man as head of the household. Unless the man is a total wimp, the marriage will be doomed.
Joanne Woodward married Paul Newman. Kept her own name. One marriage.
Others in track world who married and just added husband's name, no hyphen:
Joan Benoit Samuelson
Meredith Rainey Valmon
Francie Larrieu Smith
Jackie Joyner Kersee
Florence Griffith Joyner
Others who never changed their names when they married:
Joetta Clark
Regina Jacobs
Batman344 wrote:
If the woman wants to keep her name or have me take hers she better buy my meals, pay for our dates, open my door, ask me out, and suprise me with gifts to show she cares. Otherwise these neo-feminists need to shut the hell up and crawl back under their self appointed pulpits. What is so wrong with culture? It's our history. It's a name, it changes, you'll survive!
BTW You get way more fun parts than we do how is that fair?
See, there's no "otherwise." The neofeminist nazis (and I, although I am not one of them) believe that a woman should do all of those things for a man as much as the man does them for her. In this day and age, nobody expects the man to buy all the meals, pay for all the dates, open the door all the time, always ask the woman out, and be the only one surprising with gifts. I think that's one of the cultural norms that has fallen by the wayside with the men only in the workplace norm (and is probably connected; if women didn't make the money, how were they supposed to pay for anything).
I think your view of dating and man/woman relationships is pretty antiquated. Absolutely none of the women I know think this way.
This discussion is so messed up. Men these days just don't have balls. That or women are starting to grow them. Maybe a little of both? Hey pussies, men are supposed to be dominent in relationships! Take a look at any other primate and you could figure that out.
hahahaha thats cool..i wouldnt care about my wife not wanting to take my last name but my kids have to have my last name.
/This discussion is so messed up. Men these days just don't have balls. That or women are starting to grow them. Maybe a little of both? Hey pussies, men are supposed to be dominent in relationships! Take a look at any other primate and you could figure that out./
hahahaha thats cool..i wouldnt care about my wife not wanting to take my last name but my kids have to have my last name.
neverever wrote:
This discussion is so messed up. Men these days just don't have balls. That or women are starting to grow them. Maybe a little of both? Hey pussies, men are supposed to be dominent in relationships! Take a look at any other primate and you could figure that out.
Do you really think slavery is equal women changing their names as far as societal norms go? If you really think that let me know and I'll explain it to you and I'll make sure to use really small words so you can understand. Oh, and I didn't force my wife to do anything. We had the "Are you going to change your name?" discussion after I proposed and she said that of course she was. She viewed her maiden name as her family's (father's) name. Had she not wanted to change her name I would've still married her
captainwildcat wrote:
Do you really think slavery is equal women changing their names as far as societal norms go? If you really think that let me know and I'll explain it to you and I'll make sure to use really small words so you can understand. Oh, and I didn't force my wife to do anything. We had the "Are you going to change your name?" discussion after I proposed and she said that of course she was. She viewed her maiden name as her family's (father's) name. Had she not wanted to change her name I would've still married her
The comparison was two societal conventions whether they are equal or not is not the point. I was not trying to make the point that you enslaved your wife. The point is society's and their conventions change over time. The practice of a women taking her husbands name is directly connected to a time when men effectively owned their wives. Your own argument even backs it up, your wife had her fathers name and then she took yours never in there did she consider either name HER name. If women want strongly to take their husbands name then rock on. But what annoys me is men who simply think because it is "societal convention" it okay pressure their wives into going through the headache. I completely believe you didn't force your wife but the point I would make is that writing it off because it is a common practice just gives the jerks of the world more leverage to force their wives to do.
neverever wrote:
This discussion is so messed up. Men these days just don't have balls. That or women are starting to grow them. Maybe a little of both? Hey pussies, men are supposed to be dominent in relationships! Take a look at any other primate and you could figure that out.
Yeah we have such big balls that we are afraid to marry a women who doesnt change her name.
How many of the men posting here have had to change their last name? 1, so far in my skimming of the thread. You should know what a huge pain it is - you have to get new IDs, driver's license, social security card, change the name on insurance, payroll at work...the list goes on and on. Plus, if you're known in your profession by Ms. (insert name here) it can be difficult for people to start calling you by a different name.
Here's a question I've not seen addressed yet in the thread: have any of the women here run into ex-wives that have kept their husbands' last names, thus making it an issue for the new wife?
Why is it that a woman's name is considered her father's name here but a man's name isn't? When a woman changes her name she is taking her father in law's name. That is creepy.
captainwildcat wrote:
Do you really think slavery is equal women changing their names as far as societal norms go? If you really think that let me know and I'll explain it to you and I'll make sure to use really small words so you can understand. Oh, and I didn't force my wife to do anything. We had the "Are you going to change your name?" discussion after I proposed and she said that of course she was. She viewed her maiden name as her family's (father's) name. Had she not wanted to change her name I would've still married her
Mrs. M wrote:
Here's a question I've not seen addressed yet in the thread: have any of the women here run into ex-wives that have kept their husbands' last names, thus making it an issue for the new wife?
My husband's ex kept his last name, but considering they had three children together with the same last name I thought it was appropriate. There's no "issue" with the ex keeping the last name. She can change it or she can keep it, who cares? She still has the name, but the husband is mine.
Fembot wrote: She still has the name, but the husband is mine.
I feel the same way. I would have kept my own last name regardless of whether there was or wasn't a former "Mrs. M".
[quote]frozen north wrote:
Why is it that a woman's name is considered her father's name here but a man's name isn't? When a woman changes her name she is taking her father in law's name. That is creepy.
[quote]
I would argue that both men's and women's names are their father's names. It is possible for a last name to belong to more than one person. I currently think of my last name as my own, my father's, wy wife's, my mom's, my cousin's etc. I don't have a common last name and don't know anyone who isn't family who have it, but I'm sure there are people out there and the name belongs to them too. My wife thought of her maiden name as her own as well as her father's (and mother's) and now thinks of our last name as her own as well as mine.
How is it any more creepy for a woman to have her father-in-law's last name than it is to have her own father's after she is married?
this topic is like the 'would you marry someone that smokes" question.
it's not so much the not taking of the last name as it is that someone that is of the mind set that they would refuse to take my last name is not someone I would ever consider marrying.
not taking the last name is representative of a personality type (like smoking) that I may date, but never marry.
Yes. The woman should take the man's name and she should do all her running on concrete.
Jizzmo wrote:
this topic is like the 'would you marry someone that smokes" question.
it's not so much the not taking of the last name as it is that someone that is of the mind set that they would refuse to take my last name is not someone I would ever consider marrying.
not taking the last name is representative of a personality type (like smoking) that I may date, but never marry.
That's exactly how I'd feel about a man who is of the mind set that he would refuse to take MY last name.
Haven't heard a lot from women who believe that women should take their husbands name. Is it weird that I'm a woman who's about to get married in a couple weeks and I'm proud to take my new husbands last name? I don't worry about being his property. I believe that qualities more important than last name determine identity. I should also add that my fiance and I had a son several years ago, at a time when we weren't planning on getting married and had a very rocky relationship, but I never questioned for a second that his son should have his last name, no matter what our future as a couple might be.