Some are saying only orer of finish matters, not gun time. How can only order of finish matter when women, who are given a headstart and wheelchair, who are given a headstart finish first ahead of male elites? Shouldn't they win overall using this logic?
"Twenty-Nine Neighborhoods, ONE World Class Race" from the front cover of the spectators guide...and posters all over the city.
First, congratulations to Korir for a great time.
The right call was made. It's the right of the race director to decide if he/she wants to have a "professional division". Many major marathons have them.
The ammenities provided for those athletes would be (and often are) different then the rest of the field. Athletes in the different division will experience vastly different tactics as well.
In this case, net and gun time don't come into play- the peoples race was a separate start with a separate horn/gun
Yes esiira, I was a spectator today due to the knee. It's much better but I had to make a decision 4 days before the race and at point it was noticeably tight still so I bagged it. Definitely the right decision...I'm thinking of possibly doing another marathon later this fall or early 2009 but haven't picked one yet.
Sorry to hear about your knee, thats tough.
Okay, so what about the other prize money divisions (i.e. top americans, top illinois runners, and masters divisions). There were only 2 americans in the elite field, and the race program says that the top 5 receive prize money.
Do they blend the fields based on time for one division (top americans), but not for the overall classification? I apologize, as I may have a reason for bias because this affects me, too, but I say the Chicago Marathon needs to go by top times since they limited the elite field to only 15-20 men and 15-20 women.
I think that this would be great evidence in court.Korir should sue, and the Chicago Marathon should get hammered for false advertising.
random harrier wrote:
"Twenty-Nine Neighborhoods, ONE World Class Race" from the front cover of the spectators guide...and posters all over the city.
With the five minute head start by this year's "elites" and the slow early pace of the "elite women" it wasn't long into the race that the top "non-elites" were weaving through the media/tv/radio production masses that followed the lead pack of "elite women". This situation also needs to be addressed.
I like the elite start - but maybe a 10 minute head start should be considered. Also, looking at the results - the term "elite" could be loosened to allow runners like Wesley to start with that group - so issues like what happened yesterday won't occur again. You would thing a commitee could be in charge of allowing a few more "reputable quality runners" in the elite wave that would race smart and not start off trying to get tv coverage and just get in the way in the early miles...
Hopefully changes will be made and things get better before they get worse.
chad ware wrote:
Okay, so what about the other prize money divisions (i.e. top americans, top illinois runners, and masters divisions).
How about a non-elite marathon with huge prize money? The officials get to to decide who is elite and who is not. The elite may race, but not for prize money.
since mike reneau was the only american finisher in the elite field, and pinkowski said korir would be acknowledged as the 4th place finisher, but will not be eligible for prize money since he did not start with the elites, so do the americans who had the second to fifth best times in the american only category get acknowledged as the 2nd to 5th place usa finishers but they cant get prize money because they were not in the elite race.
it looks like if they dont pay korir they cant pay the 2nd to 5th place americans and if they do pay the 2-5 americans they would have to pay korir. any law people here who have the answer?
i say just pay korir and the 2-5 usa runners as well as the top 5 in the elite race, so this story does not escalate and this would as previously stated would be terrible for public relations.
doug burke wrote:
since mike reneau was the only american finisher in the elite field, and pinkowski said korir would be acknowledged as the 4th place finisher, but will not be eligible for prize money since he did not start with the elites, so do the americans who had the second to fifth best times in the american only category get acknowledged as the 2nd to 5th place usa finishers but they cant get prize money because they were not in the elite race.
it looks like if they dont pay korir they cant pay the 2nd to 5th place americans and if they do pay the 2-5 americans they would have to pay korir. any law people here who have the answer?
i say just pay korir and the 2-5 usa runners as well as the top 5 in the elite race, so this story does not escalate and this would as previously stated would be terrible for public relations.
makes sense to me doug. What a stupid thing to do. Who ever came up with this idea of starting 20 guys "early" should be fired. I would also expect many elites to pull out of future Chicago marathons if they don't get put into the small group up front. Im glad the papers have gotten a hold of it. This guy got 4th place. Give him what he deserves. If BOA was smart they would pay up at a nice big press conference like someone mentioned. Then put it back to ONE f-ing race.
did anything like this happen on the womens side? with American Prize money?
Can't confirm she started 5 minutes back, but Paige Higgins was not listed in the Elite entries, but was the 3rd American finisher. Given the logic of the Chicago Marathon, she was not eligible for any prize money.
chad ware wrote:
Okay, so what about the other prize money divisions (i.e. top americans, top illinois runners, and masters divisions). There were only 2 americans in the elite field, and the race program says that the top 5 receive prize money.
Do they blend the fields based on time for one division (top americans), but not for the overall classification? I apologize, as I may have a reason for bias because this affects me, too, but I say the Chicago Marathon needs to go by top times since they limited the elite field to only 15-20 men and 15-20 women.
That was my point in my earlier post, except that I don't think that the race can simply "go by top times." I think that the race organizers need to pay out additional prize money to deal with this problem, which was entirely foreseeable and of their own making. Even if they can successfully argue that certain "international track rules" regarding prize money were incorporated into the contract between the race and the runner, the incorporation of those rules into the contract as a basis for denying prize money would also give rise to very strong claims of false or misleading advertising (for which legal remedies are generally much more severe than payment of contractual damages).
With the usual caveat that there may be pertinent facts of which I am unaware, it appears to me that a decision not to pay out duplicate prize money would not only be monumentally idiotic as a public relations matter, but would probably also be legally dubious.
She did start and race in the elite field however...
Again, NO REASON Wesley couldn't have been placed in the men's elite start.
I'm thinking if they are not going to pay up they should give him free entries for life in the division of his choice.
Yeah the separate starts is a bad idea overall. Can't they "double-corral" the elites and top 100 10 meters apart and allow them prize money eligibility? Why adversely affect a serious athlete's marathon effort?
That "other Kenyan" lohalloran mentioned who went out in the second pack with Wesley Korir is someone I coach (David Cheromei).
The plan was to go out at 5:00/mile pace at the back of the elite pack, but that was scrapped with the staggered start. So the first 5K was at about 4:50 pace. In David's case it was all or nothing: Run with the one guy, countryman Wesley Korir, who was rolling or be in no man's land at Mile 1, right off the bat.
rojo wrote:
No race uses chip times to pay people.
I know I might get bashed for being a Tri Guy. But, a good number of triathlons also use chip timing. Because they have to do a time trial start for the swim. So a guy who started 5min behind you and finished 3min behind you actually beat you.
I have also done some races where only registered elites can win the money. (Not that I would be in the money, but I have come very close). But this stuff pisses me off. Fastest Man wins. Or in this case 4th place. Wesley should definitely get paid. If not, I would taunt Martin Lauret saying he did not earn the prize.
WEJO, LETSRUN.COM SHOULD DONATE $15,000 TO WESLEY KORIR AND MAKE RIGHT WHAT IS A WRONG!!
Jogger to be,
Dont you think Martin Lauret's race may have been different had he being running with Wesley or someone else right there? At that point he was running to keep position. I do not agree with that part of your post.
You cant eliminate 4th and 5th b/c they did finish across the line in those positions. The thing to do is to pay Wesley and chalk it up to a bad decision to start the race 5 min early.
Wesley will be paid $15k. I heard it from Carey today. He will not adjust the prize money from the other 5. He will simply give Wesley an additional $15k. The decision was made because Wesley handled himself in a professional manner. Had he of threatened to suit he not only would not of received a penny but he would have likely NEVER been invited to participate in a World Major Marathon again. Congrats to all.
...they have certainly put themselves in quite the predicament regardless of what the "rules" state. The simple fact that Korir was not given an "elite" number boggles my mind, as he has a pretty impressive resume!
Running from the main field and crossing the finish line in a gun time faster that all but 3 individuals in the elite field is even more impressive and that alone warrants the 4th place prize money being given to him.
Chicago either has to change the way it starts the race, or change the criteria for which they base being an "elite" runner on.
Not giving Wesley the money will be a PR nightmare for the Chicago Marathon!