Lydiard Aerobic Phase

Buzz,

What I posted here is what I DID when I was working an 8 hr day and training after work on one a day runs.

Note I said "along the lines of" . Some weeks may have varied but very little. Sometimes the Monday may have been slower or less time depending on how "rugged" the weekend was !!! Party wise and running wise !!!!

This was the basis of my Winter's of 1972 and 1973,I was not living in Auckland at the time (Hamilton..80 miles South of Auckland) but visited often (Family)so my Sunday run may not have been Waiatarua. It would have been one of our local courses. Always 19-22 miles.

Note also : This Training suited me and the lifestyle I led that time. I was single and living in a Running Flat so always someone to run with.

I know that the trolls will jump on this but when I did this work I talked with Bill Baillie about it and also another runner (Norris Wyatt 20th World Cross Country 1965). I ran those 13 milers with Norris on Country Roads in Pitch Darkeness .. Interesting !!.

The whole idea of any of this stuff is to find what suits you. Just because it is not in Arthur's Book does not mean we were not following the basic ideas.

My aim in those days was consistency of days, weeks and months.

Does that help.

Ok I'll play. Now i'm quite new to Lydiard so i'm sure others will have better info than me, but since you addressed me ...

1. First, i'm not sure who was better at his game, Cerutty or Lydiard. So there are two in my world (three if you count my former coach/now mentor but i just choose to look at him that way - he is damn good though).

Second, I assume Lydiard isn't perfect. Perfection is an ideal and is never attained - ever. It's good to aim for but not good to get hung up on. So lets throw that one out.

So who else is really good? Well i said Cerutty. I think he may have some things to offer than Lydiard didn't. Vitaly Petrov is the best technical coach in the world IMO so if you want precision with technique look at Bubka or find some words in English by Petrov himself. In the world of pole vault i count two others as Closer to Petrov than any other i've met. In the world of MD i would be interested in what Brother Colm has done and i still have interest in the whole interval side from Gerschler and Zatopek to the Czech version onto Igloi and the versions used by Cruz and Juontorena and of course Franz Stampl who lived in my city i'm yet to investigate properly. I've probably slowed on msome of this research because once i foudn Arthur i knew i had found the right guy. Then Cerutty came into the mix and i thought here we go. Amybe Stampfl was the third greatest. 2 guys in one city and another 4 hours across the seas. (sorry couldn't help myself)

2. I would be very interested to know but i'm sorry i don't know enough yet. Maybe someone else can list them?

That last bit is pretty dodgy. Are you sure you are being honest as well? So how did i do?

ps HRE i didn't pick you for a fanatic. Fan - fanatic? Maybe just the former?

sim

I accept your answer as sincere one. By your answer i do not consider you a fanatic. It seems you are able to look around you and go out of Lydiard confined teach. Thanks for your reply.

I'm not sure why you think I'd be interested in passing your test. But if I were to have a go, you'd have to define "perfect," "success," and "failure" in very specific terms. You'd also have to make your questions much more understandable than they are now.

Oh i meant to ask what is your preferred language?

I have to make a point though about how i now see things. I guess when you have say, a 'field' of knowledge. Mechanical engineering or medicine could be considered 'fields' of knowledge. The same holds true for distance running. Each 'field' of knowledge has it's elements. In distance running i see Lydiard as being not only aware of all of the elements, he also knew the relative importance of them. He then explained this better than anyone else, including my personal favourite, Percy Cerutty, and he did it with a compassionate heart more than Percy seems to have, which is also important i think.

sim wrote:

He then explained this better than anyone else, including my personal favourite, Percy Cerutty, and he did it with a compassionate heart more than Percy seems to have, which is also important i think.

Debateable. There is so much confusion surrounding Lydiardism, because it was never explained very well via the books.

more heart than Percy? The guy who assembled his athletes before a race to watch him KILL himself in a run, so that he could say "you may run a lot faster, but you'll never run harder"? :)

Oh man, Percy was ALL heart and compassion. Where's that pic of him following Elliot up a dune, and his eyes are so wide and possessed looking?

http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=HPID,HPID:2006-42,HPID:en&q=percy+cerutty+images&um=1

yeah that's passion, different to compassion ey.

..read ron daws to fill in the holes that gilmour and lydiard left out.....

Enough silliness. HERE I AM!!! :)

Denton, congrats on yet another great SunRun. And on your PIHness.

Nobby....are you lurking? I AM quite surprised that "father of jogging" is allowed to have a prominent place on that site. Discuss. (Because that would be related to this thread topic, right? JOGGING my ass, hahaha...) :)

Lydiard WAS the father of jogging. He got normal New Zealanders out on the roads.

He ALSO coached olympic champions. The joggers didn't run 100 mile weeks or do 5000m time-trials at 3/4 effort.

HRE wrote:

I'm not sure why you think I'd be interested in passing your test..

Obvious i can ask to answer Nobby that try that test.

Eventually you are less stupid and less fanatic than Nobby-He is the lost case of fanatism. For him it doesn´t matter what´s the issue we discuss. Lydiard always said something brillant about that same issue.

If the experts are discuss the Central Governor here comes Nobby to add something that Lydiard said before that central Governor theory was done that teach us all more athn the experts can understand.

quote]HRE wrote:

But if I were to have a go, you'd have to define "perfect," "success," and "failure" in very specific terms. You'd also have to make your questions much more understandable than they are now.[/quote]

Yo may consider the Lydiard definition of perfect success because failure is something they don´t know what is because Lydoard never had a single mistake or failure.

not a fanatic wrote:

HRE wrote:

I'm not sure why you think I'd be interested in passing your test..

Obvious i can ask to answer Nobby that try that test.

Eventually you are less stupid and less fanatic than Nobby-He is the lost case of fanatism. For him it doesn´t matter what´s the issue we discuss. Lydiard always said something brillant about that same issue.

If the experts are discuss the Central Governor here comes Nobby to add something that Lydiard said before that central Governor theory was done that teach us all more athn the experts can understand.

quote]HRE wrote:

But if I were to have a go, you'd have to define "perfect," "success," and "failure" in very specific terms. You'd also have to make your questions much more understandable than they are now.

Yo may consider the Lydiard definition of perfect success because failure is something they don´t know what is because Lydoard never had a single mistake or failure.[/quote]

"not a fanatic" can´t ask Nobby to try the test. It have to be you.

You are less stupid and less fanatic than Nobby.

not a fanatic....

I've been reading this thread and I can't for the life of me understand what you are going on about. It seems you just need attention. So....here is some....I guess.

It's almost as if people express their opinions, approaches, experiences and you somehow feel they are not entitled to do so. What gives?

There are some folks that really dig the coaching approach of Arthur Lydiard. And, in many cases, their leaning is based on first-hand experience. Why would you find that troubling?

If you have some interesting insights about training....especially those based on your personal experiences.....why don't you just share them? They may prove useful. Of course, if they really catch on someone might start a foundation in your name.

Ironically, your posts are the most fanatical I've read in some time. It appears you are losing the plot a bit.

All the best....

I don't really understand much of that either except that you have an axe to grind with Nobby.

I believe that what Nobby put on the Central Governor thread was relevant to whatever was being discussed at the moment. I'd respond to the comment about the Lydiard definition of perfect success but I really don't understand it. All I'll say again is that terms like "perfect, success, failure" used in this context are really subjective and need some sort of clear definitions if you're going to discuss them.

Anyway, I think I'm probably more stupid than Nobby because he's had the good sense not to get sucked into this.

As one of the "fanatics' and at the risk of drawing more "trollism' I feel similar to HRE. I really don't understand much of what was being stated !!

Do you have an axe to grind with Nobby ?

'Success and Faiure" .. What are they ?.

If you want to see where ahletes have "failed" under Arthur, just read Snell's and Halberg's books. They have talked about the things that went wrong, not just with themselves but others.

No one "beat themselves up" as much as Arthur did over the failure of the Kiwi marathon runners in Tokyo in 1964.

I also suggest you do your research and actually get hold of much of what has published involving Lydiard ideas. . Success and failure is openly dscussed.

Great book : Champion of Nothing .. Norman Harris

Great book. It took some getting used to as I read it. I don't think I've ever read a book written entirely in the second person.

Denton, who are Ron Daws and Gilmour?

Champion of Nothing sounds pretty interesting. lol. I'm unfortunately serious about that.

sim wrote:

Denton, who are Ron Daws and Gilmour?

Champion of Nothing sounds pretty interesting. lol. I'm unfortunately serious about that.

Garth Gilmour was Lydiard's co-author for many (all?) of his publications.

Ron Daws was an American marathoner back in the '60s who made the Mexico City Olympic team, and was a big fan of Lydiard. He wrote a couple of auto-biographies that include what he learned of training from Lydiard.