Georgetown

i wasn't at the meet, but have read through much of this thread. it seems that a lot of people are getting hung up on the idea that the kid finsihed last, so didn't gain an advantage, and therefore it should be ok. but this isn't about gaining an advantage, it's about breaking the rules. i mean, what if he had dropped out and not finished at all? could he go back to terre haute today, jump in where he stepped off, and finish the race? of course not. so how much time is he allowed to wander around off the course before he decides to re-enter? just becasue no advantage was gained, doesn't make it right. once you abandon, you are out. and this is not like someone stepping inside lane 1 momentarily in a track race. and as for the people claiming to have witnessed others leaving a xc race to "take a dump", i find that hard to believe, at least at any competitive level. but that's not the point.

Can someone confirm that he completed the full 10K course. The version I heard was that he skipped a small loop enroute back to his warmups, before Henner demanded he finish. The course at the end is almost entirely fenced in, but given how far back he was it seems reasonable that he had left the course and cut off a section. I think this is key to the discussion.

I looked at the NCAA manual and did not read that leaving the course, by itself, was grounds for disqualification. It did say on page 118 that a runner should be disqualified if he gains an advantge by failing to complete the prescribed course or is unduly by coach or someone else. (This point would be the grounds for disqualifying someone who, as one poster said, might be given drinks from the sidelines.)

...post meant to say unduly aided by coach...

Ok, so he left the course, and should not be disqualified.

He did, from the looks of it, entered back in at the same position, maybe give or take 10-15 meters.

But from the rules, if you leave the course, that is not specific grounds for disqualification.

I feel bad for the guys and the girls team. The girls did not do well at all. Where was Natasha and what about Freshman Sam McMillan who won Penn relays? Not a great start for the new coaching staff.

Cash wrote:

Ok, so he left the course, and should not be disqualified.

He did, from the looks of it, entered back in at the same position, maybe give or take 10-15 meters.

But from the rules, if you leave the course, that is not specific grounds for disqualification.

regardless of how this ends up playing out according to NCAA rules, i find it ridiculous that an athlete can quit a competition and be allowed to return after realizing doing so will benefit the team or himself in some way.

i have nothing against gtown or taye, but the guy dropped out of the race, seemingly with no intention of returning. how is it ok to just jump back in once he realized this was a terrible decision?

so maybe there is nothing in the rules that makes this grounds for disqualification, but i think that there definitely should be. once you drop out that should be it.

These are the rules as published by the NCAA. While I have a personal objection with the way G'town handled this, it does not appear that there was a violation of the rules. Still a black eye for Henner and the Hoyas.

118 RULE 8/CROSS COUNTRY

SECTION 9. Disqualification

The referee, after consulting with the appropriate officials, shall disqualify

a competitor who:

a. Gains an advantage by failing to complete the prescribed course that is

defined by a legal marking system;

b. Jostles, cuts across or obstructs another competitor so as to impede the

other runner’s progress. Direct contact is not necessary; any action that

causes another runner to break stride or lose momentum is grounds for

disqualification;

c. Veers to the right or to the left so as to impede a challenging runner or

forces the challenging runner to run a greater distance;

d. Tries to force a way between two leading runners and makes direct contact

so as to impede the progress of either;

e. Commits a flagrant foul; or

f. Is unduly aided by a coach, a teammate not in the race or a noncompetitor

associated with the team.

.

Say it ain't so Milt.

DC Capital wrote:

You, as a coach, have 30 minutes after the results are posted to protest. After that the results are final! So, the results are FINAL asshole.

you have to be kidding you dumbf*ck. if it comes to light later that a team flat-out cheats, that is grounds for disqualification at any point in time. grow up and think a little.

bow wow wrote:

118 RULE 8/CROSS COUNTRY

SECTION 9. Disqualification

The referee, after consulting with the appropriate officials, shall disqualify

a competitor who:

a. Gains an advantage by failing to complete the prescribed course that is

defined by a legal marking system;

.

Clearly Taye \"failed to complete the prescribed course that is defined by a legal marking system\", unless the prescibed course allows for aimless wandering around the infield.

I guess the question would be: do you consider him to have gained an advantage?

I didn\'t see it, but I also heard people directly after the race saying he didn\'t finish inner loop #3, which would make this whole debate moot.

First off, I don't think there was any real effort to "cheat" or "decieve" so I don't think we should be bashing them for that. There is a quesiton on whether this should disqualify them or not. I think any team out there would probably try to get their fifth runner in just to get a team score in this situation. If I were a coach, I would tell my athlete to get back out there and finish - I would then explain what happened to meet officials and let them determine if it was legal or not. If he is disqualified, then so be it, but I'd do my best to get my team to have an official placing as long as it was within the rules. So, NCAA officials should meet and make a ruling on this and close the issue. Of course, if the runner cut the course to complete it, then DQ them, but assuming he got back on the course in the same spot he dropped then the officials should determine if this is acceptable or not.

Burn Ayalew Taye at the stake! He is a cheater!

I really hate cheaters, so what else.

Ya'll gots to stop hatin' on Taye just cuz he's a brotha

ya'll some racist motha f***as

you wrote:

Of course, if the runner cut the course to complete it, then DQ them, but assuming he got back on the course in the same spot he dropped then the officials should determine if this is acceptable or not.

totally agree. i was under the impression that he didn't finish the entire course. if that is the case, this should be a DQ...no questions. If he ran the entire course, then he's fine.

serious question- for those defending gtown, how much time does one have to get back on the course after abandoning? could he have waited another 10 minutes before coming back?

TV viewers call in rule infractions to the PGA office all the time. Sometimes the PGA will quiz the golfer on what happened. Here's a novel thought - someone from the NCAA should actually interview Taye....and/or make a ruling one way or the other. With team placings on the line, the NCAA should do DUE DILIGENCE.