WORLD CHAMPION is all that needs to be said. Not even Sebastian Coe was a World Champ.
Dude lol - he hasn't improved, you mean he hasn't set the world record yet haha. Like the kid is already a beast.
Yeah, Sub-9:00 Guy is wrong. I personally do think a one step at a time approach is probably the right attitude. He still has Hoppel’s AR to hunt before even considering being in Rudisha territory. Let’s not forget, several dudes in the world the last few years have run in the 1:41s. Dang, nobody from last year’s WC even competed at World Indoors this year. Cooper has a lot of competition in the 8 and the jump from 1:41 to 1:40s seems waaaay harder than we are giving it credit for. Just think that Wanyonyi has run in the 1:41s like six times and still can’t crack the barrier. I do think that Cooper has a good shot if he shows improvement, but it’s not a given by any means. He has his work cut out for him.
It would. Even faster apparently. If he is that much faster over the 400 he will be even faster over the 800, his main distance. But being faster over md doesn't mean he is faster in a sprint distance as it isn't his speed that has necessarily improved but his endurance.
How do you know it was just his endurance that improved but not both his endurance and his speed?
He has not improved on any of his sprint times - 200/400. If he is any faster that is only speculation until it is demonstrated. But my point is that he can improve on his 800 time without having improved his sprint speed.
You guys certainly get yourself riled when you encounter views you can't accept. The gnashing of teeth is all yours - as you show. Wake me when he runs 1:39.
Who is expecting 1:39?
It was suggested as a possibility which is why I addressed it. It didn't have to be stated as a given. It is neither.
He said “if”. As an example of something that would send you deeper into madness. He didn’t say would. You have proved once again what a miserable, doddering, jealous POS you truly are. Believing yourself to be an expert, or even intelligent, proves what a fantasist you are. Those that have commented on your OCD are spot on. You truly need professional help. Any denials will merely supply further proof of your obvious problems.
Lutkenhaus is on his way to being a major player in championships. You gnash your teeth over this. How petty.
You guys certainly get yourself riled when you encounter views you can't accept. The gnashing of teeth is all yours - as you show. Wake me when he runs 1:39.
How do you know it was just his endurance that improved but not both his endurance and his speed?
He has not improved on any of his sprint times - 200/400. If he is any faster that is only speculation until it is demonstrated. But my point is that he can improve on his 800 time without having improved his sprint speed.
Last year he improved from 47.6 to 46.3 in official 400m times, meaning he got faster. He also improved his mile PR last year, meaning he also got better endurance. Both these PRs were back in mid season when he was running 1:46. Since then he has run 1:42, meaning he had to have gotten faster in either sprints or endurance or the most likely option, both.
You saying he can improve his 800m time without having improved his sprint speed is a true statement, however you were insisting that you knew for a fact he didn't improve his sprint speed by a significant amount, which you simply cannot know, as he hasn't ran a sprint race or endurance race since he was in 1:46 shape. Seems like your finally admitting that you're just guessing that all he did was improve his endurance, rather than having anything to back that opinion up.
So I'll ask again, since what you said contained false information. How do you know it was just his endurance that improved but not both his endurance and his speed?
How do you know it was just his endurance that improved but not both his endurance and his speed?
He has not improved on any of his sprint times - 200/400. If he is any faster that is only speculation until it is demonstrated. But my point is that he can improve on his 800 time without having improved his sprint speed.
?
Cooper went 48.7 in the 400m in 8th grade, 47.3 in 9th grade, and 46.3 last season. (Note: As each of those times were recorded as the second race of a double, shortly after Cooper ran very fast 800m races to win either a national or state title, they understate his true ability. But they do demonstrate his improvement.)
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
Nigel Amos ran 1:41.73 as an 18 year old in 2012... Now he's 32 and his PR is... 1:41.73.
Predicting future PRs is useless. Until you run a certain time, you haven't run the time and it may never happen. Even if you have run a certain time, doesn't mean you'll do it again. That's why they run the races.
How do you know it was just his endurance that improved but not both his endurance and his speed?
He has not improved on any of his sprint times - 200/400. If he is any faster that is only speculation until it is demonstrated. But my point is that he can improve on his 800 time without having improved his sprint speed.
I think a major point you are missing is that Cooper hasn’t raced the 200 and 400 much, especially since his current PRs and being locked in on the 800. I feel like your main point that he hasn’t gained speed is based on the fact that he hasn’t actually PRd at those sprint distances, but you are ignoring the fact that he hasn’t raced them in a while. You are using an absence of evidence argument to demonstrate evidence, but it’s a flawed argument.
He has not improved on any of his sprint times - 200/400. If he is any faster that is only speculation until it is demonstrated. But my point is that he can improve on his 800 time without having improved his sprint speed.
I think a major point you are missing is that Cooper hasn’t raced the 200 and 400 much, especially since his current PRs and being locked in on the 800. I feel like your main point that he hasn’t gained speed is based on the fact that he hasn’t actually PRd at those sprint distances, but you are ignoring the fact that he hasn’t raced them in a while. You are using an absence of evidence argument to demonstrate evidence, but it’s a flawed argument.
He has not improved on any of his sprint times - 200/400. If he is any faster that is only speculation until it is demonstrated. But my point is that he can improve on his 800 time without having improved his sprint speed.
Last year he improved from 47.6 to 46.3 in official 400m times, meaning he got faster. He also improved his mile PR last year, meaning he also got better endurance. Both these PRs were back in mid season when he was running 1:46. Since then he has run 1:42, meaning he had to have gotten faster in either sprints or endurance or the most likely option, both.
You saying he can improve his 800m time without having improved his sprint speed is a true statement, however you were insisting that you knew for a fact he didn't improve his sprint speed by a significant amount, which you simply cannot know, as he hasn't ran a sprint race or endurance race since he was in 1:46 shape. Seems like your finally admitting that you're just guessing that all he did was improve his endurance, rather than having anything to back that opinion up.
So I'll ask again, since what you said contained false information. How do you know it was just his endurance that improved but not both his endurance and his speed?
I'm not guessing. He hasn't improved his sprint times since last year - the only proof of that would have been times that show that. There are none. He has improved his 800 time since which I said - but you didn't understand - would have required improved endurance but not necessarily speed. I am not saying he can't be faster but it isn't a necessary condition of a faster 800 that he must have improved his sprint speed.
But for all of you who insist he must be faster and will run faster sprint times you have nothing to go on. His prs remain the same. If he is faster we are yet to see it.
He has not improved on any of his sprint times - 200/400. If he is any faster that is only speculation until it is demonstrated. But my point is that he can improve on his 800 time without having improved his sprint speed.
?
Cooper went 48.7 in the 400m in 8th grade, 47.3 in 9th grade, and 46.3 last season. (Note: As each of those times were recorded as the second race of a double, shortly after Cooper ran very fast 800m races to win either a national or state title, they understate his true ability. But they do demonstrate his improvement.)
It's a simple point. An md athlete can improve over a longer distance without that requiring they have faster sprint speed.
He has matured early, as his 800 performances show, so any improvements now over any distance are likely to be harder to come by.
To reiterate - he may be marginally faster over the 400, though he is yet to show it, but there is nothing thus far that suggests he could be truly competitive over the distance, which is a 44x-FAT runner. But most top 800 runners aren't.
He has not improved on any of his sprint times - 200/400. If he is any faster that is only speculation until it is demonstrated. But my point is that he can improve on his 800 time without having improved his sprint speed.
I think a major point you are missing is that Cooper hasn’t raced the 200 and 400 much, especially since his current PRs and being locked in on the 800. I feel like your main point that he hasn’t gained speed is based on the fact that he hasn’t actually PRd at those sprint distances, but you are ignoring the fact that he hasn’t raced them in a while. You are using an absence of evidence argument to demonstrate evidence, but it’s a flawed argument.
The "absence of evidence" you refer to is more indicative that he hasn't gained in sprint speed. There is nothing to show otherwise. No faster times.
The discussion originally began with him running a 21.8 flying 200 in training but as has been pointed out that is only 22.6 from blocks. It isn't even his best time.
Until or unless he can run better than 21-flat for the 200 - his best is over a second slower - he will be never be 44-high - a second and a half faster than his best over the 400 - which has been predicted. But sub-46 is possible.
If he truly had potential over the 400 we would have seen it, as we have with Quincy Wilson. Wilson is over 2 seconds faster. That's another realm.
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
I think a major point you are missing is that Cooper hasn’t raced the 200 and 400 much, especially since his current PRs and being locked in on the 800. I feel like your main point that he hasn’t gained speed is based on the fact that he hasn’t actually PRd at those sprint distances, but you are ignoring the fact that he hasn’t raced them in a while. You are using an absence of evidence argument to demonstrate evidence, but it’s a flawed argument.
Nigel Amos ran 1:41.73 as an 18 year old in 2012... Now he's 32 and his PR is... 1:41.73.
Predicting future PRs is useless. Until you run a certain time, you haven't run the time and it may never happen. Even if you have run a certain time, doesn't mean you'll do it again. That's why they run the races.
lol Amos wasn’t 18 at the London Games. Not one of the “teens” in the final was actually a teen. There’s little doubt that the sutuation was and is the same as what was discovered when FIFA introduced MRI testing (wrist) on junior athletes and found out there were literally zero actual juniors on the African teams. Amos sure was a cheat however. Age and drug cheat.
I agree with earlier posters who pointed out a lot of people, jealous people, are literally praying for Lutkenhaus to never improve. They always bring up Amos etc. The fact that Lutkenhaus ran over 2-1/2 seconds faster indoors this past season than last year in the 800 has them even more upset. Sure, the faster he gets means he’ll improve more slowly, but it won’t take much to put him right in there with the very top runners of the past several years.
Last year he improved from 47.6 to 46.3 in official 400m times, meaning he got faster. He also improved his mile PR last year, meaning he also got better endurance. Both these PRs were back in mid season when he was running 1:46. Since then he has run 1:42, meaning he had to have gotten faster in either sprints or endurance or the most likely option, both.
You saying he can improve his 800m time without having improved his sprint speed is a true statement, however you were insisting that you knew for a fact he didn't improve his sprint speed by a significant amount, which you simply cannot know, as he hasn't ran a sprint race or endurance race since he was in 1:46 shape. Seems like your finally admitting that you're just guessing that all he did was improve his endurance, rather than having anything to back that opinion up.
So I'll ask again, since what you said contained false information. How do you know it was just his endurance that improved but not both his endurance and his speed?
I'm not guessing. He hasn't improved his sprint times since last year - the only proof of that would have been times that show that. There are none. He has improved his 800 time since which I said - but you didn't understand - would have required improved endurance but not necessarily speed. I am not saying he can't be faster but it isn't a necessary condition of a faster 800 that he must have improved his sprint speed.
But for all of you who insist he must be faster and will run faster sprint times you have nothing to go on. His prs remain the same. If he is faster we are yet to see it.
He hasn’t improved his sprint times since last year, because he hasn’t run raced sprints since last year. Your surmising your conclusion from such a weak absence of evidence argument is mysteriously and uncharacteristically illogical of you. Say a person is born in France and learns French and then moves to America at ten years old and learns English, and doesn’t speak French again because he has no need to. Do you conclude from that the person is incapable of improving his French simply because he isn’t currently speaking it? You seem to have an extreme predilection for empiricism, while at the same time neglecting choices, opportunities, and improvement that isn’t immediately verifiable by your own unrealistically strict standards of evidence.
Nigel Amos ran 1:41.73 as an 18 year old in 2012... Now he's 32 and his PR is... 1:41.73.
Predicting future PRs is useless. Until you run a certain time, you haven't run the time and it may never happen. Even if you have run a certain time, doesn't mean you'll do it again. That's why they run the races.
lol Amos wasn’t 18 at the London Games. Not one of the “teens” in the final was actually a teen. There’s little doubt that the sutuation was and is the same as what was discovered when FIFA introduced MRI testing (wrist) on junior athletes and found out there were literally zero actual juniors on the African teams. Amos sure was a cheat however. Age and drug cheat.
I agree with earlier posters who pointed out a lot of people, jealous people, are literally praying for Lutkenhaus to never improve. They always bring up Amos etc. The fact that Lutkenhaus ran over 2-1/2 seconds faster indoors this past season than last year in the 800 has them even more upset. Sure, the faster he gets means he’ll improve more slowly, but it won’t take much to put him right in there with the very top runners of the past several years.
Then how old was he? Do you think he was already like 23? If he was 23 then pretty amazing for him to run another 1:41 in 2019 at the age of 30... Probably the oldest ever to run sub 1:42 in the 800m. And then he ran 1:42 in 2021... So if you think he was already like 23 then that means he ran a 1:42 at the age of 32. That's crazy, most mid distance guys start to decline in their upper 20's but he was still running 1:41 in 2019 after running 1:41 in 2012.... Or maybe he actually was a teenager in 2012, so he was still 25 when he ran another 1:41, that seems more realistic since not many 30 year olds run 1:41, or anywhere near their PR.