Speak for yourself. I want to see PRs and who wins the race is secondary. In the women’s 3000m, I’m pretty sure that Hedengren would far prefer finishing second with an 8:25, than a win at 8:30.
When have you seen a paced race at this level, where there were 5-6 guys bunched on each other’s shoulders late in the race? Even if their abilities are similar, there are no guarantees that all of them are at near peak fitness.
haha you tell someone to speak for themself and then you try to speak for Jane. Hypocritical.
A true competitor values winning above all else. You clearly are not a true competitor.
I wrote that “I’m pretty sure” which implies that I could be wrong so I wasn’t speaking for her. An 8:25 would put her 2nd on the all-time indoor/outdoor list compared to 12th with an 8:30. Why do think she would be happier with the slower time? She can save her true competitor attitude for the races that count, like NCAAs outdoor and USATF.
haha you tell someone to speak for themself and then you try to speak for Jane. Hypocritical.
A true competitor values winning above all else. You clearly are not a true competitor.
I wrote that “I’m pretty sure” which implies that I could be wrong so I wasn’t speaking for her. An 8:25 would put her 2nd on the all-time indoor/outdoor list compared to 12th with an 8:30. Why do think she would be happier with the slower time? She can save her true competitor attitude for the races that count, like NCAAs outdoor and USATF.
A true competitor would prefer to win every race regardless of time. Fisher ran under the 2000 indoor WR last weekend but he wasn't happy because he didn't win. It's clear you don't understand the true competitor way of thinking.
You have the opinion of a person who was never competitive. For you, every race is a time trial. While others actually try to win the race.
Saying that she wants to lose is not the same as believing she wants to run the fastest time possible. LRers almost always refer to paced races as being TTs. If placing is that important, it doesn’t seem fair to provide pacers that help the non-kickers. Ingebrigtsen struggles with the championship races but is nearly unbeatable with pacers.
I wrote that “I’m pretty sure” which implies that I could be wrong so I wasn’t speaking for her. An 8:25 would put her 2nd on the all-time indoor/outdoor list compared to 12th with an 8:30. Why do think she would be happier with the slower time? She can save her true competitor attitude for the races that count, like NCAAs outdoor and USATF.
A true competitor would prefer to win every race regardless of time. Fisher ran under the 2000 indoor WR last weekend but he wasn't happy because he didn't win. It's clear you don't understand the true competitor way of thinking.
How do you know he wasn’t happy? He was actually walking around with a big smile on his face, shaking hands with the other runners. The 2000m is not within his range so he should be stoked with running a 4:49 and losing by less than a second.
A true competitor would prefer to win every race regardless of time. Fisher ran under the 2000 indoor WR last weekend but he wasn't happy because he didn't win. It's clear you don't understand the true competitor way of thinking.
How do you know he wasn’t happy? He was actually walking around with a big smile on his face, shaking hands with the other runners. The 2000m is not within his range so he should be stoked with running a 4:49 and losing by less than a second.
I listed to the podcast where he said it was bittersweet to run fast but lose. He's a true competitor and he wants to win. Same with Hocker. He ran under the old indoor 3000 WR last year but he wasn't happy because he lost to Fisher. True competitors want to win.
I wrote that “I’m pretty sure” which implies that I could be wrong so I wasn’t speaking for her. An 8:25 would put her 2nd on the all-time indoor/outdoor list compared to 12th with an 8:30. Why do think she would be happier with the slower time? She can save her true competitor attitude for the races that count, like NCAAs outdoor and USATF.
A true competitor would prefer to win every race regardless of time. Fisher ran under the 2000 indoor WR last weekend but he wasn't happy because he didn't win. It's clear you don't understand the true competitor way of thinking.
John Walker was ecstatic with after running a big 3:32 PR behind Bayi’s WR at the 1974 Commonwealth Games and still speaks fondly of the race. Do you think Walker wasn’t a competitor? Guys that win a Bronze or Silver are usually jubilant after the race and some conceded the Gold to be in a position to win their medal. If Fisher had gone for the wins in Paris, he probably wouldn’t have medaled.
John Walker was ecstatic with after running a big 3:32 PR behind Bayi’s WR at the 1974 Commonwealth Games and still speaks fondly of the race. Do you think Walker wasn’t a competitor? Guys that win a Bronze or Silver are usually jubilant after the race and some conceded the Gold to be in a position to win their medal. If Fisher had gone for the wins in Paris, he probably wouldn’t have medaled.
We're not talking about championship races. Those are different because winning a medal means you still won something. We're talking about indoor races like New Balance and Millrose. True competitors like Fisher and Hocker weren't happy when they lost those races even though they ran fast.
John Walker was ecstatic with after running a big 3:32 PR behind Bayi’s WR at the 1974 Commonwealth Games and still speaks fondly of the race. Do you think Walker wasn’t a competitor? Guys that win a Bronze or Silver are usually jubilant after the race and some conceded the Gold to be in a position to win their medal. If Fisher had gone for the wins in Paris, he probably wouldn’t have medaled.
We're not talking about championship races. Those are different because winning a medal means you still won something. We're talking about indoor races like New Balance and Millrose. True competitors like Fisher and Hocker weren't happy when they lost those races even though they ran fast.
What about Connor Mantz? If he ran 2:04 behind two guys that ran 2:02 in one of those crazy fast overseas marathons, would the race be bittersweet for him?
In most races, there are maybe 2-3 guys in the race that have a chance to win, so that means there are a lot of unhappy people after it’s done. At Millrose, Blanks is not going to win and I would expect that he will be very happy with an 8:02-03 time while finishing in around 5th place.
We're not talking about championship races. Those are different because winning a medal means you still won something. We're talking about indoor races like New Balance and Millrose. True competitors like Fisher and Hocker weren't happy when they lost those races even though they ran fast.
What about Connor Mantz? If he ran 2:04 behind two guys that ran 2:02 in one of those crazy fast overseas marathons, would the race be bittersweet for him?
In most races, there are maybe 2-3 guys in the race that have a chance to win, so that means there are a lot of unhappy people after it’s done. At Millrose, Blanks is not going to win and I would expect that he will be very happy with an 8:02-03 time while finishing in around 5th place.
In a situation where athletes go into a race knowing they have no chance to win because there are others in the race who are simply better than them, then they take the consolation prize of running as fast as they could. In such a situation, that athlete wasn't a competitor for the win to begin with. They were just a participant.
In a race between athletes who are closely matched and they are battling each other for the win, a true competitor will not be happy taking a loss.
Agreed. The problem though is that Fisher doesn’t seem to be in good enough form for another 7:23 performance . . .
Again, more nonsense.
Just listen to the interviews Grant has offered since last Saturday's 2000 race.
He's thrilled with his 4:49. Most upbeat I've heard him since his Paris Oly medal races.
Pelvic injury from summer prevented him from full-out training until the 3rd or 4th week of November.
Just admitted he's known for several months he would be doing the NY Half but didn't announce it until a couple weeks back.
Thus, has been training for the road race all along with the only concession to these two track races being sets of 200s, 300s and 400s replacing mile & longer intervals he'll begin doing next week.
Grant's fit. Back running 100 mile weeks. Pleasantly surprised that what minimal speed training he's done allowed him to race 58/400s in the 2000 race. Reiterated the 2000 has given him all the confidence in the world heading into the Millrose 2 mile.
And, stated, although the technical meetings on Saturday will determine the targeted times for the pacers and pacing lights, fully expects a WR attempt.
If nothing else, what we've learned from Grant over the past several years is how quickly he rounds into shape for these winter time trial races.
From the lessons Grant's admitted to learning of overtraining & overracing from looking back on 2025, he's now years wiser, more confident and just as fit if not more so than he's ever been at this point in the season.
The Coffee Club boys were joking that all 13 runners will break 8-flat. Kerr's coach MacKay believes Jakob's 7:54 outdoor WR could be under threat. Kerr's 7:30/3000 split en route to his 8-flat two years ago now seems tame compared to Grant's 7:22.91/3000 WR last year.
If the rabbit & pace lights are set at 4-flat for the 1st mile, that pace = 7:34/3000. Way too slow. Could see Grant or someone else getting itchy and passing the rabbit before the mile to get around 3:58.
In either case, 7:56 - 7:57 FTW is looking more and more feasible. And a 7:54 - 7:55 appears within the grasp of those who are not afraid of hearing 3:58 - 3:59 at the mile mark.
🤦🏻4:49 is just not that great and doesn’t convert to sub 7:58. You’d have to be close to 7:22-7:21 shape for 3k and Grant is not there. The rest of your post is just jargon. 7:54 is not happening in a million years.
Just listen to the interviews Grant has offered since last Saturday's 2000 race.
He's thrilled with his 4:49. Most upbeat I've heard him since his Paris Oly medal races.
Pelvic injury from summer prevented him from full-out training until the 3rd or 4th week of November.
Just admitted he's known for several months he would be doing the NY Half but didn't announce it until a couple weeks back.
Thus, has been training for the road race all along with the only concession to these two track races being sets of 200s, 300s and 400s replacing mile & longer intervals he'll begin doing next week.
Grant's fit. Back running 100 mile weeks. Pleasantly surprised that what minimal speed training he's done allowed him to race 58/400s in the 2000 race. Reiterated the 2000 has given him all the confidence in the world heading into the Millrose 2 mile.
And, stated, although the technical meetings on Saturday will determine the targeted times for the pacers and pacing lights, fully expects a WR attempt.
If nothing else, what we've learned from Grant over the past several years is how quickly he rounds into shape for these winter time trial races.
From the lessons Grant's admitted to learning of overtraining & overracing from looking back on 2025, he's now years wiser, more confident and just as fit if not more so than he's ever been at this point in the season.
The Coffee Club boys were joking that all 13 runners will break 8-flat. Kerr's coach MacKay believes Jakob's 7:54 outdoor WR could be under threat. Kerr's 7:30/3000 split en route to his 8-flat two years ago now seems tame compared to Grant's 7:22.91/3000 WR last year.
If the rabbit & pace lights are set at 4-flat for the 1st mile, that pace = 7:34/3000. Way too slow. Could see Grant or someone else getting itchy and passing the rabbit before the mile to get around 3:58.
In either case, 7:56 - 7:57 FTW is looking more and more feasible. And a 7:54 - 7:55 appears within the grasp of those who are not afraid of hearing 3:58 - 3:59 at the mile mark.
🤦🏻4:49 is just not that great and doesn’t convert to sub 7:58. You’d have to be close to 7:22-7:21 shape for 3k and Grant is not there. The rest of your post is just jargon. 7:54 is not happening in a million years.
Agreed Grant and Hocker looked fairly maxed out, more so Grant. I think a lot of people will be disappointed with the time but that’s how it goes.
This post was edited 16 seconds after it was posted.
No he hasn’t lost it. Do I have Kerr winning? No. Would I be surprised if he won? Absolutely not! He is the current world record holder and is fast af. I think picking Kerr, Cole, or Grant, are all reasonable picks. I’ve got Grant personally but think it could go to either of those 3.
Everyone always underestimates George Beamish an indoors and outdoors world champ and has beaten Cole Hocker with superior finishing speed.
George Beamish (often referred to as Geordie Beamish) has a strong record against Cole Hocker, highlighted by key wins in high-stakes indoor races.
Head-to-Head Highlights:
2024 World Indoor Championships (1500m): Beamish won gold with a final 100m split of 12.78 seconds, finishing ahead of Cole Hocker (Silver).
2022 Millrose Games (3000m): In Hocker's professional debut, Beamish won with a time of 7:39.50, defeating Hocker who finished third.
2024 Millrose Games (2-Mile): Cole Hocker placed 3rd (8:05.70) and George Beamish placed 4th (8:05.73), with Hocker finishing just ahead in this instance.
Beamish, known for a devastating finishing kick, has often been able to edge out Hocker.
Leave it to a bunch of morans like Gault to forget the guy who spanked Fisher the last time they raced at 2-mile, who’s also the only guy in the field who’s been a 2-mile national champion. That is your obvious favorite.
🤦🏻4:49 is just not that great and doesn’t convert to sub 7:58. You’d have to be close to 7:22-7:21 shape for 3k and Grant is not there. The rest of my post is just jargon. 7:54 is not happening in a million years.
With Grant out I’m picking Kerr as well. The one thing I think Gault got wrong was Ky’s chances. He placed below Graham AND parker at world cross but is seeded above them? And has the 6th best chance to win (5th best now with Grant out). Why? Sure world cross is different than track, but Graham has better PR’s at 3k and 5k than Ky as well as a recent head to head win against him (and this is likely to turn into a time trial so the PR’s mean a lot imo). Also John underrated Habtom. Is he gonna win no… but I bet he is in the top half of the field. His recent half marathon shows he’s fit, and he didn’t peak for it just ran it off his normal training, so he should be decent in a time trial imo. Kerr is my pick to win now (it was Grant before).
This post was edited 7 minutes after it was posted.
I strongly suspect that this race will suffer from the "arcadia 3200 effect", where too many cooks in the kitchen means no one serves up something special. Even in a non-championship year, winning over a field like this takes precedence over a fast time, and I believe everyone's race strategy will reflect that.
Additionally, in something as short as the 2 mile there is no longer any enormous fitness gap between the top distance guys. The best 1500 runners have been forced to develop a strong base because of the last few years of racing. I think several of the guys here are in shape to run between 7:57-8:01, but I highly doubt that will actually happen.
My prediction: Good first 1k at around 2:30 flat, followed by a lag in the pace and then a tremendous last 800 with the winner finishing in around 8:03.
Don't want to toot my own horn but pretty much exactly as I called it. However, that was still a FANTASTIC race. Oh my goodness.
I said a few weeks ago to put the house on Wolfe, and I stand by that, even though I know he's realistically pretty unlikely to win. Here's my take on everyone else:
- Hocker: he's so good but if you bet on him in the regular season you will get burned again and again. He's gonna get broken just before the kick I think.
- Kerr: should be the favorite but no races so far and a big question mark since Tokyo. I don't love his chances. Maybe if he'd raced once already I'd be more likely to bet on him.
- Fisher: a wild card, he beat Hocker in the kick last year but I think this race will go more like the year before for him.
- Strand: too inconsistent right now. His mettle has never been tested against a field of this caliber.
- Robinson: will never win, but he's a dark horse to run like 8:03 to end up on the podium. We will all be confused about this again.
I also don't think it'll be sub 8 like everyone is saying, or maybe 7:59 at the fastest. Jakob's outdoor WR is safe. People don't have the guts.
1. Wolfe 8:01
2. Kerr 8:01
3. Robinson 8:01
4. Fisher 8:02
5. Strand 8:02
6. Hocker 8:03
I can't wait to be proved really wrong and Hocker runs 7:56 somehow
Wow, what a finish. I’m happy for Wolfe, he fought two global champions to the line. He left his heart out there.
Props to Robinson, king of the late kick for 4th
Blanks went too early, he was the sacrificial lamb
Hocker is just the goat
Strand disappoints a little
Kerr consistent as always, he’ll never do worse than like 2nd or 3rd in any race he enters these days
This post was edited 36 seconds after it was posted.