This is exactly the psychological advantage he has over his competitors. It is mental torture for his competitors. They all know they have to absolutely work extremely hard in the swim and the cycling stages to get a wide enough cushion time to beat Yee.4 minutes is not enough .
‘stacks up’ sure when the race is a complete disaster and ppl do an extra bike loop and the wrong number of laps
has the fastest run because hes 2:00 behind coming out of T2 in a Olympic distance event
a lot of promise but lets see some hardware at this point.
like McElroy, Jason West, decent in one or two disciplines, but not consistent and stretching the credulity of being called a modern triathlete
but youre on about Yee who’s ‘worst’ discipline is the bike but yet still managed a Silver and a Gold at the Olympics
obviously youre having a hard time understanding how these guys scale up as they move through their careers
Heres a better way to think about it:
Yee can out swim many IM favorites by 1:30-2:00, then he gets outbiked, lets say by 6:00, ok, he’s down 4:00 going into the run
you think anyone is safe going into a marathon with only 4:00 on A Yee at thus point?
Not trying to totally insert myself into this back & forth, but this is an on paper sort of argument. Weather/course/how hard he biked all matter. There's a reason Lange doesn't win every time. Stornes ran 2:29 in the heat in Nice off of a crazy hard bike. I don't think you just take an open 2:06 & crown Yee the champ when we haven't seen him in non-draft legal triathlon. & I disagree that 12-20m is meaningless. It matters in the sense that the top guys can pack up & if he can't hang they're going to increase their lead & he could be riding solo.
Yee can out swim many IM favorites by 1:30-2:00, then he gets outbiked, lets say by 6:00, ok, he’s down 4:00 going into the run
you think anyone is safe going into a marathon with only 4:00 on A Yee at thus point?
Not trying to totally insert myself into this back & forth, but this is an on paper sort of argument. Weather/course/how hard he biked all matter. There's a reason Lange doesn't win every time. Stornes ran 2:29 in the heat in Nice off of a crazy hard bike. I don't think you just take an open 2:06 & crown Yee the champ when we haven't seen him in non-draft legal triathlon. & I disagree that 12-20m is meaningless. It matters in the sense that the top guys can pack up & if he can't hang they're going to increase their lead & he could be riding solo.
of course conditions matter
of course nutrition, heat prep, and preparations all matter
but the point is every time someone comes across from short course its the same silliness ‘he was good at olympic distance draft tri but will struggle here’
Casper finally broke through with a good year and thats great
Again, i think ppl are giving a bit to much to ‘guys’ are putting out big watts in these races. So what? Many of them are overbiking and have to roll the dice to get away before the run, especially when they know they have the faster runners absolutely dominating them on the third leg here
So yeah, Yee could come out of the water lead pack, do a coffee ride, and still contend when hes gets out of T2, thats the kind of weapon this guy has for the run
Doing it in New Balance shoes as well. It's funny as reviews always describe NB race shoes as being mid to back of the pack for racing shoes. Just shows how much is down to the runner and just how good even the "slower" supershoes are.
Ya I always have to remind myself that pro runners don't necessarily wear nike or adidas because they're the best shoe. Those companies are just the ones that are giving those athletes money and shoes.
Running economy per day hits a ceiling at 1 hour. So everything above that is to transition muscle fibers, burn fat as fuel or helping the body absorb more workouts. That is also why some of the best runners are also cross country skiiers
Yee is not a very good biker as far as Olympic triathletes go. I kind of think Wilde deservd the Paris Oly gold, because the Brits got a bike pacer (basically) for Yee in the form of Sam Dickinson, who promptly quit the race after providing a draft for Yee the whole 40k (more or less). No bike pacer and Wilde probably wins.
You mean Kristian Blummenfelt, who bridged up the 3rd AND 2nd group in Paris BY HIMSELF bringing Wilde and Yee along AND their domestics (as per usual his entire WTS career). It is possible neither would not have medaled without KB driving the front. Dicko and Wilde's domestic plus others PROBABLY would have filled in without KB but they just let KB do what KB does, on the front of the 3rd then larger 2nd group, his entire short course career, without fear of damaging his run, doing the work nobody sees... work on the front that Jan Frodo tea baggins NEVER did before or after his fluke Beijing sprint win. Frodo PULLED THROUGH on the front at times, like any smart runner would do. He never sat on the front and bridged up entire groups, bossing it like KB, helping 20 - 40 guys sitting on. Race after race after race, KB always on the front of the 2nd group, saving the race for all those behind him. Sometimes he was 3rd group back and everyone just hanging on getting a free ride. An absolute legend that many have to thank. And once the bridge was made to the front, most times KB KEPT driving, at the head of the race. Unreal ballz in a game where most hide from the wind. The unspoken hero to many other pros racing WTS, saving the race for all those behind him. An absolute legend that many have to thank.
Sam Dickenson was never needed. Just like Wilde's domestic (Dylan McCullough) was never needed. They were at the ready, Never needed because KB bridged up the 3rd/4th group, then the 2nd group to the lead group. Wilde could bridge the gap (but blow his run) or do much more work than Yee, that's for sure. Wilde has been on the front with KB quite a few times helping KB, who does the lions share. That was before Wilde's swim was dialed. Wilde has always been a freak on the bike back to his off road days.
Are there any other marathon times available for some of the triathlon/ironman greats? I'm thinking about names like Simon Whitfield, Jan Frodeno, Alistair Brownlee, Jonathan Brownlee, Kristian Blummenfelt, Hayden Wilde, Dave Scott, Mark Allen etc. I'd love to know
No open marathon times for these tri geeks. Straight run races are rare too. Here's what I got.
Whitfield: no idea but worth searching as he was a runner before tris. my guess would be 29:30 10k pr
Frodo: no idea
Ali: 28:45 10k at Stanford invite years ago
Jonny: no idea
KB: 13:52 road 5k in Norway. He attempted a low 28:00 10k track time but pulled out with cramps.
Wilde: 27:45 Tokyo road 10k
Dave Scott: no idea and so slow not worth searching
Mark Allen: raced a 10 miler in the late 80's and I think he held just under 5:00 pace. No Yee build up though. I think he chucked it in with tri training. That was fast tri running for his era but he was not in the mix with the leaders
Undoubtedly, and now the greatest endurance athlete on the planet
be amazing when this guy starts trying 70.3/T10 races
He cannot drop steady watts for solo tt's. He is just too scrawny to generate needed power. The power spikes of short course tris are a different beast than steady long tt efforts in one position. Wilde will be lethal for years at 70.3 / T108 (see Dubai) and probably full IM later but Yee has no chance in the non-drafting game. His legs will be wrecked if he tries and the gaps too big to make up on broken legs.
It's actually a huge shame we never got to see peak Ali Brownlee at long course. Damn those flimsy ankles of his.
He would have been a failure at longer distances with that uneconomical running style that they have...probably a major contributor to the ankel issues too.
That's incredible considering how much upper body muscle he has to carry for swimming. Those of us who used to make fun of triathletes just went home devastated!
Upper body what?? Clueless are you.
I was like whuh?? when I read this too.
Yee is rail thin. Zero upper body. It's amazing he swims as fast as he does. He started as a triathlete though so the technique hurdle was cleared in crucial formative years. Yee is no Sam Long or Jimmy Whelan
Yee is rail thin. Zero upper body. It's amazing he swims as fast as he does. He started as a triathlete though so the technique hurdle was cleared in crucial formative years. Yee is no Sam Long or Jimmy Whelan
Yes his upper body is similar in equivalency (rail thin) to the female triathlete from the USA who is also a very good runner whose name escapes me for the time being.
You're right about technique and if swimmers are taught the right technique when they're children - then that compensates for lack of upper body and we can see this in the pool every day when we swim and we see kids who are coached easily out swim fit runners who have bad technique with sinking legs. Swimming is 80 to 90% technique at least initially. Good swimmers also look good in their 50s 60s and 70s but that cannot be said for the case of runners who usually go downhill fast, in their later years.
i think you’re missing the point and failing by your own logic and example: Casper shouldn’t have been able to win in Nice since the bike course was not suited for him, let alone go 1-3 with guys who arent the greatest climbers or have the highest w/kg advantages
its no different in kona: you can have all this down as ‘conceptual’ advantages but that’s not how the races play out otherwise we’d be crowning Ditlev the champion of kona every year and Lange the champion of Nice
Pearson has struggled in every format for a myriad of reasons not really relevant to this conversation about the very best transitioning (yee, wilde, van riel, geens, norwegians). i wouldn’t include pearson in that conversation, sorry
What is the point I'm missing? You think Alex Yee is going to step up to 70.3 and IRONMAN racing and immediately dominate Hayden Wilde, Jelle Geens, Casper Stornes, and Kristian Blummenfelt because he's a 2:06 marathoner?
The three Norwegians you mention have every bit the W/kg of any in the sport. Do I think guys like Magnus Ditlev, Sam Long, and Trevor Foley stand a much better chance at Kona than Nice? Absolutely.
But the reality is these Norwegians aren't that small and aren't that big, so they can dominate on both types of courses with lab tested VO2 max figures in the 90s. Alex Yee is tiny. I would not be surprised if he could manage a meager 275 watts for an Ironman bike leg and follow that up with a 2:25 in the heat, which would have been more than enough the year Jan Frodeno rode 262W for the win. But it's a different game now and I wouldn't be surprised if 275 watts and a 2:25 doesn't crack the top 5 in Kona. Can he do 330 watts for an hour to stay attached before the climb to Hawi? Probably not.
Lange is a relatively lousy cyclist, and now that the top runners in triathlon are posting power not that much lower than Ditlev and Laidlow, they're never really going to be threatened by those guys.
I'm not sure why Pearson is an irrelevant comparison. He's faster over a half marathon than Yee. He's getting crushed in T100 because he's putting out 325 watts for two hours while being on the bigger side, while guys like Rico Bogen push 375 and smaller guys like Geens push the same power.
Lange is not a lousy cyclist. He is a first chase pack THEN FRONT GROUP cyclist in Kona now, cycling with everyone except Ditlev and Laidlow. It's taken him years to get there but that's where he is now. He has no weakness at all. He is no comparison to Yee in full IM PERFORMANCE. Lange swims near the front now then cycles big numbers w/kg and backs it up with fast runs. He is front pack riding now because his swim improved BIG TIME, swimming with a proper club team. Norge / Laidlow just that much better.
Yee’s marathon (2:06.38) = 1192 IAAF points
Wilde’s road 10k (27:45) = 1155 IAAF points
Pearson’s HM (61:02) = 1145 IAAF points
Yee is the fastest runner in triathlon according to IAAF
I think you're having a hard time understanding. How did Alistair Brownlees (the undisputed GOAT of short course) fail to win a single 70.3 or Ironman World title? Same reason Yee may not be able to. There are better guys when you figure in a time trial bike leg. But just too stupid to argue anymore.
Ali was 2nd at two 70.3 worlds. Ali was a VERY good 70.3 racer immediately too. He rode at the front. Yee would be dropped like 3rd period French by much of the field.
That Frodo/Ali/Gomez run battle in South Africa 70.3 worlds was insane.
What is the point I'm missing? You think Alex Yee is going to step up to 70.3 and IRONMAN racing and immediately dominate Hayden Wilde, Jelle Geens, Casper Stornes, and Kristian Blummenfelt because he's a 2:06 marathoner?
The three Norwegians you mention have every bit the W/kg of any in the sport. Do I think guys like Magnus Ditlev, Sam Long, and Trevor Foley stand a much better chance at Kona than Nice? Absolutely.
But the reality is these Norwegians aren't that small and aren't that big, so they can dominate on both types of courses with lab tested VO2 max figures in the 90s. Alex Yee is tiny. I would not be surprised if he could manage a meager 275 watts for an Ironman bike leg and follow that up with a 2:25 in the heat, which would have been more than enough the year Jan Frodeno rode 262W for the win. But it's a different game now and I wouldn't be surprised if 275 watts and a 2:25 doesn't crack the top 5 in Kona. Can he do 330 watts for an hour to stay attached before the climb to Hawi? Probably not.
Lange is a relatively lousy cyclist, and now that the top runners in triathlon are posting power not that much lower than Ditlev and Laidlow, they're never really going to be threatened by those guys.
I'm not sure why Pearson is an irrelevant comparison. He's faster over a half marathon than Yee. He's getting crushed in T100 because he's putting out 325 watts for two hours while being on the bigger side, while guys like Rico Bogen push 375 and smaller guys like Geens push the same power.
Lange is not a lousy cyclist. He is a first chase pack THEN FRONT GROUP cyclist in Kona now, cycling with everyone except Ditlev and Laidlow. It's taken him years to get there but that's where he is now. He has no weakness at all. He is no comparison to Yee in full IM PERFORMANCE. Lange swims near the front now then cycles big numbers w/kg and backs it up with fast runs. He is front pack riding now because his swim improved BIG TIME, swimming with a proper club team. Norge / Laidlow just that much better.
Yee’s marathon (2:06.38) = 1192 IAAF points
Wilde’s road 10k (27:45) = 1155 IAAF points
Pearson’s HM (61:02) = 1145 IAAF points
Yee is the fastest runner in triathlon according to IAAF
Hes just like Yee will be: front pack swim, lose 4:00-5:00 on the bike, dominate on the run
Again, look at Langes split for Kona 24 after you say he ‘fixed’ his bike power:
7:35:53 (47:09/4:06:22/2:37.34)
9:00 slower than Laidlow, 4:00-5:00 behind the known big power guys
What is the point I'm missing? You think Alex Yee is going to step up to 70.3 and IRONMAN racing and immediately dominate Hayden Wilde, Jelle Geens, Casper Stornes, and Kristian Blummenfelt because he's a 2:06 marathoner?
The three Norwegians you mention have every bit the W/kg of any in the sport. Do I think guys like Magnus Ditlev, Sam Long, and Trevor Foley stand a much better chance at Kona than Nice? Absolutely.
But the reality is these Norwegians aren't that small and aren't that big, so they can dominate on both types of courses with lab tested VO2 max figures in the 90s. Alex Yee is tiny. I would not be surprised if he could manage a meager 275 watts for an Ironman bike leg and follow that up with a 2:25 in the heat, which would have been more than enough the year Jan Frodeno rode 262W for the win. But it's a different game now and I wouldn't be surprised if 275 watts and a 2:25 doesn't crack the top 5 in Kona. Can he do 330 watts for an hour to stay attached before the climb to Hawi? Probably not.
Lange is a relatively lousy cyclist, and now that the top runners in triathlon are posting power not that much lower than Ditlev and Laidlow, they're never really going to be threatened by those guys.
I'm not sure why Pearson is an irrelevant comparison. He's faster over a half marathon than Yee. He's getting crushed in T100 because he's putting out 325 watts for two hours while being on the bigger side, while guys like Rico Bogen push 375 and smaller guys like Geens push the same power.
Lange is not a lousy cyclist. He is a first chase pack THEN FRONT GROUP cyclist in Kona now, cycling with everyone except Ditlev and Laidlow. It's taken him years to get there but that's where he is now. He has no weakness at all. He is no comparison to Yee in full IM PERFORMANCE. Lange swims near the front now then cycles big numbers w/kg and backs it up with fast runs. He is front pack riding now because his swim improved BIG TIME, swimming with a proper club team. Norge / Laidlow just that much better.
Yee’s marathon (2:06.38) = 1192 IAAF points
Wilde’s road 10k (27:45) = 1155 IAAF points
Pearson’s HM (61:02) = 1145 IAAF points
Yee is the fastest runner in triathlon according to IAAF
I don't think anyone is arguing Yee isn't the fastest runner in triathlon.
But the game has been raised on the bike and Lange hasn't shown that he can cut it. Lange rode 4:43 at IMWC 2023 in Nice. With a 2:32 marathon that was good enough for second place. This year he rode 4:50 at Nice and he ran a 2:31 and only came in 9th place. The podium contenders are biking 4:31-4:32 in Nice. The Norwegian contingent, Laidlow, and Ditlev will surely go close to 4 hours in Kona.
Either way I think we are arguing the same thing which is that Yee may not be able to overcome the deficit on the bike. The idea that he can "go for a coffee ride" and overtake everyone on the run is in my opinion ludicrous.
Granted he might need to do a training block on the bike to sharpen himself to hang with Wilde but they all sit in drafting lines anyway so he just needs to be good enough to hang close enough to him. Other than that the standard of athletes in long course triathlon is awful compared to short course so he would easily outrun the rest by 5 mins+.
I also just cant see Yee moving to long course for a long long time, look at Jonny Brownlee, he has raced elite drafting triathlons into his mid 30s at the very top level. Long course tri just isn't anywhere near as prestigious as the proper elite racing no matter how much Saudi money you throw at it.
Apparently he was interviewed after Valencia and he is fully commited and determined to defending his Olympic gold in the triathlon in LA. He didn’t mention if he was going to compete in any more marathons between now and then but you would have to predict that given it is still a full 2.5 years away and given his marathon form he would have to have it in mind. My prediction is he will try to break Mo Farah’s British marathon record up until 2027 with some triathlon races thrown in the mix and then focus all out on a triathlon build up before switching full time to the marathon after.
He has said that he may do the marathon in London at the 2029 Worlds.
This post was edited 44 seconds after it was posted.
Reason provided:
Originally typed 2028
Apparently he was interviewed after Valencia and he is fully commited and determined to defending his Olympic gold in the triathlon in LA. He didn’t mention if he was going to compete in any more marathons between now and then but you would have to predict that given it is still a full 2.5 years away and given his marathon form he would have to have it in mind. My prediction is he will try to break Mo Farah’s British marathon record up until 2027 with some triathlon races thrown in the mix and then focus all out on a triathlon build up before switching full time to the marathon after.
Alex is a friend of a friend of mine. Before Valencia he said it was going to be his final marathon. Of course his result could have changed his mind but so far I haven't heard that it has.
He said in a Cronos sponsored interview that he may go for London 2029 in the marathon.
So what I've learned in this thread, to my surprise, is that Yee actually isn't very good at triathlon at all. All these years he, his team, and the British media have been gaslighting me into thinking he was good at the 3 disciplines rolled into 1 continuous event. When in fact I have now learned that he is a terrible swimmer, a weak cyclist, and a sort of good but not quite world class runner.
Thank goodness this board is here to enlighten me as I just took things such as the Olympic Golds as a sort of guarantee that he was a good triathlete. I now know better and won't be fooled or impressed by his shenanigans any longer.