What I understand is that CA courses are not "real" XC courses by northeast standards if spikes are not necessary to dominate a race and run fast times. Allowed or not is not the point.
Runners would wither and die at any of the big NE/NY courses without spikes.
You STILL don't understand. Of course "allowed or not" IS the point.
If spikes were banned in a state in NE/NY then high school runners wouldn't use spikes there either, simple as that. For some strange reason you are desperately trying to make an issue out of something that the kids have no control over. Kids in every state have to follow the rules whether they like the rules or not.
I do understand, I guess my point is not clear because you're just not getting it.
Not at all trying to "make an issue" of anything. Just looking at data.
California state meet had 75 girls running under 18?
SPIKES ARE NOT PERMITTED! I GET IT! I UNDERSTAND THAT!
BUT this is a course where 75 girls ran under 18 in trainers or super shoes?
Great times, super fast times, not taking away from that ,but on a course that can't be anything resembling what the NY/NE kids ran on. No comparison.
I do understand, I guess my point is not clear because you're just not getting it.
Not at all trying to "make an issue" of anything. Just looking at data.
California state meet had 75 girls running under 18?
SPIKES ARE NOT PERMITTED! I GET IT! I UNDERSTAND THAT!
BUT this is a course where 75 girls ran under 18 in trainers or super shoes?
Great times, super fast times, not taking away from that ,but on a course that can't be anything resembling what the NY/NE kids ran on. No comparison.
Spikes have nothing to do with difference between CA courses and Northeast courses.
CA are generally dry and flat, on hard packed trails and even roads. Northeast courses are in thick grass, soft dirt, have hills and rain/cold/wind often factor in.
Whichever shoe you wear, NE courses will just be slower.
Fortunately, at NXN & Brookslocker they all run the same course.
You STILL don't understand. Of course "allowed or not" IS the point.
If spikes were banned in a state in NE/NY then high school runners wouldn't use spikes there either, simple as that. For some strange reason you are desperately trying to make an issue out of something that the kids have no control over. Kids in every state have to follow the rules whether they like the rules or not.
I do understand, I guess my point is not clear because you're just not getting it.
Not at all trying to "make an issue" of anything. Just looking at data.
California state meet had 75 girls running under 18?
SPIKES ARE NOT PERMITTED! I GET IT! I UNDERSTAND THAT!
BUT this is a course where 75 girls ran under 18 in trainers or super shoes?
Great times, super fast times, not taking away from that ,but on a course that can't be anything resembling what the NY/NE kids ran on. No comparison.
Sophia Rodriguez ran 16:10 back in September and went undefeated (not counting Worlds) until Regionals- not sure what happened there. I imagine she could be in the mix if she is in top form.
Sophia Rodriguez's 16:10 at the Mook XC Invite was not nearly as good of a performance as you're imagining that it was. There's a reason it only got a speed rating of 150.
Same thing with Ellery Lincoln's 16:28 in that same race. Not as good as it seems.
Sophia Rodriguez ran 16:10 back in September and went undefeated (not counting Worlds) until Regionals- not sure what happened there. I imagine she could be in the mix if she is in top form.
Sophia Rodriguez's 16:10 at the Mook XC Invite was not nearly as good of a performance as you're imagining that it was. There's a reason it only got a speed rating of 150.
Same thing with Ellery Lincoln's 16:28 in that same race. Not as good as it seems.
Agreed. They both avoided real competition all year, and got rewarded for it. twice. Both Brooks and NXN. They have to be a little embarrassed by the 'riches' handed to them, and they'll now have more eyes and pressure on them than they've ever had.
I do hope they respond well. They're both very good runners, but the nepotism is pretty obvious here. There are a few girls who are more deserving of something, and the wealth should have been spread to others, but it was all funneled to these 2 NW girls with families in the biz.
Props to Braelyn Combe for an incredibly mature and reflective Insta post. Poor kid missed the individual qualification by 1 spot, the team spot by 1, then most likely was the next name in the hat for the individual at-large. Triple Whammy after an outstanding season and career. If this motivates her to carry a chip on her shoulder into track, she might go sub 4:30 in the mile her senior season.
Sophia Rodriguez ran 16:10 back in September and went undefeated (not counting Worlds) until Regionals- not sure what happened there. I imagine she could be in the mix if she is in top form.
Sophia Rodriguez's 16:10 at the Mook XC Invite was not nearly as good of a performance as you're imagining that it was. There's a reason it only got a speed rating of 150.
Same thing with Ellery Lincoln's 16:28 in that same race. Not as good as it seems.
You realize they beat like NXN qualifiers in that race by 30-40 seconds right?
Sophia Rodriguez's 16:10 at the Mook XC Invite was not nearly as good of a performance as you're imagining that it was. There's a reason it only got a speed rating of 150.
Same thing with Ellery Lincoln's 16:28 in that same race. Not as good as it seems.
You realize they beat like NXN qualifiers in that race by 30-40 seconds right?
And Rodriguez ran 15:47 at Woodbridge as a sophomore whereas someone like Combe didn’t sub16.
You realize they beat like NXN qualifiers in that race by 30-40 seconds right?
And Rodriguez ran 15:47 at Woodbridge as a sophomore whereas someone like Combe didn’t sub16.
And Elizabeth Leachman ran 15:32 at Woodbridge as a sophomore. What do sophomore times have to do with anything? Rodriguez is not a sophomore. Different year, different fitness level. I'm not sure why you decided to bring up her sophomore times.
Sophia Rodriguez's 16:10 at the Mook XC Invite was not nearly as good of a performance as you're imagining that it was. There's a reason it only got a speed rating of 150.
Same thing with Ellery Lincoln's 16:28 in that same race. Not as good as it seems.
Agreed. They both avoided real competition all year, and got rewarded for it. twice. Both Brooks and NXN. They have to be a little embarrassed by the 'riches' handed to them, and they'll now have more eyes and pressure on them than they've ever had.
I do hope they respond well. They're both very good runners, but the nepotism is pretty obvious here. There are a few girls who are more deserving of something, and the wealth should have been spread to others, but it was all funneled to these 2 NW girls with families in the biz.
Props to Braelyn Combe for an incredibly mature and reflective Insta post. Poor kid missed the individual qualification by 1 spot, the team spot by 1, then most likely was the next name in the hat for the individual at-large. Triple Whammy after an outstanding season and career. If this motivates her to carry a chip on her shoulder into track, she might go sub 4:30 in the mile her senior season.
Despite some people telling Braelyn Combe on Instagram things like "You had a great xc season, good luck in track", Braelyn Combe is NOT done with her xc season. She will be running the Brooks West Regional this Saturday.
Spikes have nothing to do with difference between CA courses and Northeast courses.
CA are generally dry and flat, on hard packed trails and even roads. Northeast courses are in thick grass, soft dirt, have hills and rain/cold/wind often factor in.
Whichever shoe you wear, NE courses will just be slower.
Fortunately, at NXN & Brookslocker they all run the same course.
Further observation: on a 1-10 scale, Woodward Park is a 6 while Bowdoin Park is a 9.
(Note: 1 = Woodbridge, essentially a track meet on grass; 10 = Crystal Springs, essentially a mountain trail race.)
Woodward has one short, steep hill ("Killer Hill" but not really for fit athletes) just before 2 miles, then a much shorter hill at the 2-mile mark. Bowdoin has the one hill/mountain to climb thru the first 2.5k then down the mountain to the finish.
Yes, Bowdoin is more difficult than Woodward. However, both have flat start/finish areas with a hill/s in the middle.
However, the question remains: does the added "resistance" of Bowdoin's big, big hill equate to the added "resistance" of Glendoveer's squishy grass and mud puddles? In other words, does the additional effort needed to race up Bowdoin's mountain approximately equal the additional effort needed to race thru Glendoveer's muck? Regardless of who's the fittest, will racing Bowdoin have Bartlett better prepared than anyone else for what is to come on Glendoveer this Saturday?
If you believe Bartlett, Dudek, Lowen, Wilson, Williams, Alder, maybe one or two others, are all approximately at the same level of fitness, but believe Bartlett is better prepared for Glendoveer due to having run Bowdoin (2c now this fall), then, yes, your favorite is Blair Bartlett.
Since I have no idea whether this notion of "hill resistance" equating to "mud & water resistance" has any validity, still believe picking any one individual girl FTW at NXN this Saturday is nothing more than simply picking one's personal favorite runner.
Thus, still sticking to my belief the winner will emerge from the quartet of Dudek, Bartlett, Wilson, Williams.
Spikes have nothing to do with difference between CA courses and Northeast courses.
CA are generally dry and flat, on hard packed trails and even roads. Northeast courses are in thick grass, soft dirt, have hills and rain/cold/wind often factor in.
Whichever shoe you wear, NE courses will just be slower.
Fortunately, at NXN & Brookslocker they all run the same course.
Further observation: on a 1-10 scale, Woodward Park is a 6 while Bowdoin Park is a 9.
(Note: 1 = Woodbridge, essentially a track meet on grass; 10 = Crystal Springs, essentially a mountain trail race.)
Woodward has one short, steep hill ("Killer Hill" but not really for fit athletes) just before 2 miles, then a much shorter hill at the 2-mile mark. Bowdoin has the one hill/mountain to climb thru the first 2.5k then down the mountain to the finish.
Yes, Bowdoin is more difficult than Woodward. However, both have flat start/finish areas with a hill/s in the middle.
However, the question remains: does the added "resistance" of Bowdoin's big, big hill equate to the added "resistance" of Glendoveer's squishy grass and mud puddles? In other words, does the additional effort needed to race up Bowdoin's mountain approximately equal the additional effort needed to race thru Glendoveer's muck? Regardless of who's the fittest, will racing Bowdoin have Bartlett better prepared than anyone else for what is to come on Glendoveer this Saturday?
If you believe Bartlett, Dudek, Lowen, Wilson, Williams, Alder, maybe one or two others, are all approximately at the same level of fitness, but believe Bartlett is better prepared for Glendoveer due to having run Bowdoin (2c now this fall), then, yes, your favorite is Blair Bartlett.
Since I have no idea whether this notion of "hill resistance" equating to "mud & water resistance" has any validity, still believe picking any one individual girl FTW at NXN this Saturday is nothing more than simply picking one's personal favorite runner.
Thus, still sticking to my belief the winner will emerge from the quartet of Dudek, Bartlett, Wilson, Williams.
Spikes have nothing to do with difference between CA courses and Northeast courses.
CA are generally dry and flat, on hard packed trails and even roads. Northeast courses are in thick grass, soft dirt, have hills and rain/cold/wind often factor in.
Whichever shoe you wear, NE courses will just be slower.
Fortunately, at NXN & Brookslocker they all run the same course.
Further observation: on a 1-10 scale, Woodward Park is a 6 while Bowdoin Park is a 9.
(Note: 1 = Woodbridge, essentially a track meet on grass; 10 = Crystal Springs, essentially a mountain trail race.)
Woodward has one short, steep hill ("Killer Hill" but not really for fit athletes) just before 2 miles, then a much shorter hill at the 2-mile mark. Bowdoin has the one hill/mountain to climb thru the first 2.5k then down the mountain to the finish.
How much faster would you say Woodward is compared to Bowdoin in average conditions(for their location)?
This post was edited 18 seconds after it was posted.