Tuohy got embarassed against pros while in college. She wasn't even close to them while in HS. You are very confused. Comparing her to other Americans of any age, she sacked.
You stuck in age groups Ping was best in JH. So what? Tuohy was great in HS. Both suck now. Dozens of Americans are faster. Jane aepears to be a generational talent. We.don't know yet. Michael Jordan was a generational talent. He wasnt good in HS. No basketball fans are saying the guys who were nba flops in Jordan's generation were generational talents. Only a handful of nutty Tuohy fans can't let.go.
It’s remarkable that the number #1 ranked college recruit in the nation, wasn’t good in HS. Maybe you meant Jordan wasn’t very good in baseball.
She still has shown a couple of flashes of getting back to her top level as a pro, but she’ll drop one race showing she could be on track then has a bad USAS or pulls out of a start list. She ran 4:25 and 15:04 last year then was last or close to it at USAS. Puzzling
I'd say Touhy was better than 'pretty good' in college, but otherwise I agree with you.
Her 1-2 yr college run was very similar to Jenny Simpson with wins and records.
What hurts her claims though is Valby came along the next year and did almost the same and then added the Olympics. Meanwhile even Grace Hartman and Napoleon at her own school are duplicating or beating her times.
Still 5 nxn races w/ 3 titles, and 4 ncaa xc all american w/ 1 title and 3 team wins is hard to beat for durability and consistency.
The issue with 'generational' is that a generation is 15-20 years, ie was she the best runner of her generation? Well no.
Cain, Efraimson, Hedengren, Engelhardt, Hutchins, Cook and Leachman at high school level are faster, Valby, Hartman, Napoleon and perhaps shortly Hedengren are faster at college level. Cranny, Houlihan and Purrier as pros.
My guess when the dust settles Cain and Hedengren will be the 'generational' talents, also Cranny and Simpson very good at 3 levels of hs, college and pro.
Still it will be Hasay and Tuohy that had the biggest impact on the general public, and these two both had longevity that others will not be able to match. (Hasay 4 Foot Lockers, 2 wins, 4 yr Oregon career, and brief but effective pro marathon success)
Hedengren shouldn’t be in the same sentence as those people. Rather than being a generational talent, she’s the best one, ever. Her 2-mile record is mind boggling and boys with that time have qualified for state out of the Sac Joaquin Section. It might be 50 years before her records are broken.
Except for the 3000m, Hedengren had already surpassed Tuohy’s career PRs and Hassay’s career best is 15:28. Hedengren probably won’t run a 10000m next year, but it’s likely she’ll surpass all of Valby’s other PRs next spring.
Wake up....your having a bad dream.....Jane's younger sister has already broke all Jane's PBs at the same age. 50 years?
Mary Cain is the perfect example. I think everyone would agree she was a high school generational talent making the world's final while in high school. But she showed what a lot of top high schoolers show: success at 16, especially for the women, does not necessarily mean success at 26.
Mary Cain is the perfect example....Signed with Nike, admitted immediately subsequent she was pressured to do PEDs, chose not to follow that advice and slid into oblivion.
Remember when Allie O almost won NCAA XC as a true freshman?
Ostrander may never have become a world beater, but she certainly had a pretty good career considering the eating disorder struggles she had to endure and has overall had as successful a career as Tuohy has had.
You stuck in age groups Ping was best in JH. So what? Tuohy was great in HS. Both suck now. Dozens of Americans are faster. Jane aepears to be a generational talent. We.don't know yet. Michael Jordan was a generational talent. He wasnt good in HS. No basketball fans are saying the guys who were nba flops in Jordan's generation were generational talents. Only a handful of nutty Tuohy fans can't let.go.
Jesus man do you believe every dopey urban legend or conspiracy you hear
You're right Jordan wasn't good in high school he was great! He was pretty much top 10 players in the country Junior and Senior year and probably widely considered the best in the country as a senior
Yeah he didn't make varsity as a freshman cuz he went to a really good school and he hadn't started growing yet... But he made it as a sophomore and quickly became one of the best players in the country.
Jordan went to a summer camp like a national invite summer camp, before his senior year, and basically everybody saw he was hands down the best player
I mean the guy was a phenom and an incredible athlete from a young age
And you know what Einstein was pretty damn good at math.
You stuck in age groups Ping was best in JH. So what? Tuohy was great in HS. Both suck now. Dozens of Americans are faster. Jane aepears to be a generational talent. We.don't know yet. Michael Jordan was a generational talent. He wasnt good in HS. No basketball fans are saying the guys who were nba flops in Jordan's generation were generational talents. Only a handful of nutty Tuohy fans can't let.go.
Jesus man do you believe every dopey urban legend or conspiracy you hear
You're right Jordan wasn't good in high school he was great! He was pretty much top 10 players in the country Junior and Senior year and probably widely considered the best in the country as a senior
Yeah he didn't make varsity as a freshman cuz he went to a really good school and he hadn't started growing yet... But he made it as a sophomore and quickly became one of the best players in the country.
Jordan went to a summer camp like a national invite summer camp, before his senior year, and basically everybody saw he was hands down the best player
I mean the guy was a phenom and an incredible athlete from a young age
And you know what Einstein was pretty damn good at math.
I mean Jordan dunked as a freshman in high school in a game. There aren't many people who are bad at basketball are dunking as freshman in high school... in actual games when they're only like 5' 9
Still it will be Hasay and Tuohy that had the biggest impact on the general public, and these two both had longevity that others will not be able to match. (Hasay 4 Foot Lockers, 2 wins, 4 yr Oregon career, and brief but effective pro marathon success)
This is only due to the fan boy/girl effect.
True, but this is really important for a sponsor's marketing effort and what they are willing to pay an athlete.
Same story right now with Caitlyn Clark, who has become Jordan like. Meanwhile, players like Wilson, Stewart, Collier, Thomas, Ionescu, Bueckers, Fudd, Betts, Juju are better or equal players, but don't move the needle much as spokespeople.
Hedengren shouldn’t be in the same sentence as those people. Rather than being a generational talent, she’s the best one, ever. Her 2-mile record is mind boggling and boys with that time have qualified for state out of the Sac Joaquin Section. It might be 50 years before her records are broken.
Except for the 3000m, Hedengren had already surpassed Tuohy’s career PRs and Hassay’s career best is 15:28. Hedengren probably won’t run a 10000m next year, but it’s likely she’ll surpass all of Valby’s other PRs next spring.
The only issue here is you actually have to go out and win the races.
Hedengren will now have to go thru the boring formality of winning ncaa titles, making US teams, and earning global medals.
Mary Cain is the perfect example. I think everyone would agree she was a high school generational talent making the world's final while in high school. But she showed what a lot of top high schoolers show: success at 16, especially for the women, does not necessarily mean success at 26.
Cain was 17 in Moscow final of 1500.
She was 18 when she won World U20 gold at 3000.
Sure it didn't work out for her as an adult, but many athletes who follow the conventional path via ncaa never even make a USA team, despite long pro careers.
It wasn’t ridiculous at all to think she had great potential and it’s a bit of head scratcher as to why she has struggled the last couple of years.
I define generational talent to be an assessment of potential coming of HS and not for a career.
There are a million different factors that come into play impacting what someone runs at 17 versus what they run at 27. You can pick out a dozen examples of “generational talents” (men and women!) that, for one reason or another, didn’t have super successful collegiate or professional running careers.
I’m kinda uncomfortable naming individuals, but examples are everywhere. For a really easy case in point: Elise Cranny and Fiona O’keeffe are top-2 among all US women in their 5k and marathon respectively. Neither ever won NXN — they both finished behind people these boards dubbed “generational talents” at the time — who ended up having brief (or nonexistent) pro careers.
In the last 12ish years, the only people I’ve been able to emphatically and unequivocally describe as generational talents before they even started college were Grant Fisher, Mary Cain, and a woman (who I’m not gonna name) who is imo the greatest high school XC runner of all time, but whose injuries derailed her running career.
Mary Cain is the perfect example. I think everyone would agree she was a high school generational talent making the world's final while in high school. But she showed what a lot of top high schoolers show: success at 16, especially for the women, does not necessarily mean success at 26.
Mary Cain is the perfect example....Signed with Nike, admitted immediately subsequent she was pressured to do PEDs, chose not to follow that advice and slid into oblivion.
Care to clarify specifically what you are referring to? Which PEDs? Was it sort of like Kara Goucher’s Cytomel incident with Salazar, or something else? Is it something Cain claimed in her book, or elsewhere?
Mary Cain is the perfect example....Signed with Nike, admitted immediately subsequent she was pressured to do PEDs, chose not to follow that advice and slid into oblivion.
Care to clarify specifically what you are referring to? Which PEDs? Was it sort of like Kara Goucher’s Cytomel incident with Salazar, or something else? Is it something Cain claimed in her book, or elsewhere?
My curiosity was peaked, because I vaguely remember it coming out in the media that Salazar said something about Cain and her Physician Doctor’s “supplements” for her, after Salazar was under attack.
Care to clarify specifically what you are referring to? Which PEDs? Was it sort of like Kara Goucher’s Cytomel incident with Salazar, or something else? Is it something Cain claimed in her book, or elsewhere?
My curiosity was peaked, because I vaguely remember it coming out in the media that Salazar said something about Cain and her Physician Doctor’s “supplements” for her, after Salazar was under attack.