I can’t tell if I’m missing something or if you are missing something. Are these skills not learned? Can people not just learn how to run uphill or downhill? Can people not learn how to eat simple ingredient foods that are high in carbohydrates and low in fats while they jog for a day? Do you need to be born with the ability to strapping a 1500 lumen headlamp to your forehead and navigate a forest for 15 miles?
Im sure you missed this read from a couple years back kinda cool to look back see how many maurten gels and maurten bars that Jornet consumed during Hardrock 100 and UTMB. Kipchoge consumes a lot of the same stuff(sponsored by maurten) running at a much higher intensity, so much for a sensitive stomach. His daily meals are quite similar to Jornet’s when it comes to base nutrients
you really want to keep those East Africans out, huh? Wouldn’t want to ruin the purity of UTMB.
btw, drop your fastest time in your furthest ultra and I’ll let you know if I have you beat :) and if I haven’t run that far yet, I’ll report back in a year and beat your time by an hour!
Yes these skills can be learned but very fast Marathoners will have a difficult time learning them. And it's not like anybody is holding Kenyans or Ethiopians back at UMTB or Comrades but they are not showing up there.
The Kenyans and Ethiopians are "not showing up" to ultra marathons in that same way that Patrick Mahomes is not "showing up" to your backyard Thanksgiving football game. They have better things to do with their time than beat twice-divorced old men to the top of a hill for an extra quadruple hopped IPA coupon to the local hipster brewery.
Just drop your best race time/distance and the course. I promise I will back it up with a better performance. When I do that, will you agree to soften your hard fixed beliefs and gatekeeping around ultra marathons? Not one person here is willing to do that.
2:00:20 Pikes Peak Ascent. Go for it tough guy.
Man, trail guys have a really tough time with reading comprehension.
I was talking to buzzcolorado because I’m 99% sure that they are a failed 50k trail runner from the Midwest that now volunteers at backyard ultras.
I highly doubt you are actually Remí Bonnet posting with an anonymous account “Remi”. But even if you are, I’ll still give it the old college try, and when I do run it in 2:00:19 I’ll make sure I’m wearing jeans when I do it
Won't blame you for boring flat running rotting your brain, but let it go Roadkingsovertrailqueens. Not a good look.
I’m still here. I don’t use a vpn to make multiple anon accounts like 4:30miler
you’re arguing with someone else who is equally highly rational and intelligent as I am. In your case, that’s a tougher uphill battle than Col Checrouit - Col Chavannes
Sure, and if there was as much money in T&F as there is in football/soccer, then all of the Olympic champions would be different. Does that make you appreciate the current top athletes less? Such a weird argument...
A better analogy would be if NFL players decided to play flag football. I think you know what the result would be. Professional marthoning and professional ultra-miling don't require wildly different body types or talent areas. Someone who can run 4:40 miles for 26.2 could easily run 6 minute miles for a lot longer with a little bit of education in fueling. Most ultra runners would struggle to run a single 4:40 mile.
The people who dominate ultra running are simply not elite level world class athletes in any sense, just like people who dominate flag football are not. They are simply the best of small group of people in a hobby. Top level football/soccer players and top level track athletes are all world class. When they walk in a room, it is obvious they are not "normal" people. It's a tough pill to swallow for the ultra guys I know, maybe their triple hopped double chocolate milkshake IPAs can help get it down.
This sounds good but is simply not correct. Do you debate whether an 800 meter runner or the 5k runner is the better athlete? Maybe they are equally good, but at different things. The mistake you are making is to assume that elite road marathoning translates directly to a 100 mile mountain race with 10,000 meters of climbing. Even at the elite D1 level track times do not correlate directly to XC times and you are talking about 8k of racing with far fewer variables. While fueling has been mentioned, the biggest variable is the ability to climb well. Elite marathoners have never done this while the top trail runners have practiced for years. Being efficient and dynamic on the downhills also counts for a lot. You can't just assume that because Walmsley is a sub elite marathoner than an elite marathoner would beat him easily in a completely different race that is 4 times longer with tremendous vertical gain.
Man, trail guys have a really tough time with reading comprehension.
I was talking to buzzcolorado because I’m 99% sure that they are a failed 50k trail runner from the Midwest that now volunteers at backyard ultras.
I highly doubt you are actually Remí Bonnet posting with an anonymous account “Remi”. But even if you are, I’ll still give it the old college try, and when I do run it in 2:00:19 I’ll make sure I’m wearing jeans when I do it
That is what I thought, just your standard blow hard poster full of hot air. The route is open until the snow flies. Make a weekend out of it. It is just a half marathon, only a jog at 9min miles. Should be simple for you.
Man, trail guys have a really tough time with reading comprehension.
I was talking to buzzcolorado because I’m 99% sure that they are a failed 50k trail runner from the Midwest that now volunteers at backyard ultras.
I highly doubt you are actually Remí Bonnet posting with an anonymous account “Remi”. But even if you are, I’ll still give it the old college try, and when I do run it in 2:00:19 I’ll make sure I’m wearing jeans when I do it
As an ultrarunner, I will post on behalf of the ultrarunning community. I apologize for whatever terrible things ultrarunners have previously done to you, and the degree to which our presence offends you. I wish you well 🙏.
I have finished Spartathlon and Hardrock. Please let us know when you will races these races in the future. Right now you could not even finish the qualifiers for these.
I got you, queen! I’ll report back in 2026
LOL You won't. You probably never finished a Marathon yet.
A better analogy would be if NFL players decided to play flag football. I think you know what the result would be. Professional marthoning and professional ultra-miling don't require wildly different body types or talent areas. Someone who can run 4:40 miles for 26.2 could easily run 6 minute miles for a lot longer with a little bit of education in fueling. Most ultra runners would struggle to run a single 4:40 mile.
The people who dominate ultra running are simply not elite level world class athletes in any sense, just like people who dominate flag football are not. They are simply the best of small group of people in a hobby. Top level football/soccer players and top level track athletes are all world class. When they walk in a room, it is obvious they are not "normal" people. It's a tough pill to swallow for the ultra guys I know, maybe their triple hopped double chocolate milkshake IPAs can help get it down.
This sounds good but is simply not correct. Do you debate whether an 800 meter runner or the 5k runner is the better athlete? Maybe they are equally good, but at different things. The mistake you are making is to assume that elite road marathoning translates directly to a 100 mile mountain race with 10,000 meters of climbing. Even at the elite D1 level track times do not correlate directly to XC times and you are talking about 8k of racing with far fewer variables. While fueling has been mentioned, the biggest variable is the ability to climb well. Elite marathoners have never done this while the top trail runners have practiced for years. Being efficient and dynamic on the downhills also counts for a lot. You can't just assume that because Walmsley is a sub elite marathoner than an elite marathoner would beat him easily in a completely different race that is 4 times longer with tremendous vertical gain.
A 1:41 800m guy or a 12:40 5k guy are both true one in a billion type humans. Just like 105 mpw pitchers or guys who can lift 2000 pounds. The fact that no one person can do all of these things is irrelevant. Top ultra runners are simply not these types of people, even though they like to think they are. They are mostly failed marathoners and/or washed up college runners. No one who has achieved the previous feats started because they were mediocre at a slightly different version of their sport.
You will never see a woman set a men's 5k world record. You will never see a man pick up middle distance running in his 30s and pop off a 1:39 800m. The equivalent of both of these has happened in ultra running. It's not because the sport is "different" it's because it is simply less competitive, both historically and currently.
I don't know why it is so hard for ultra runners to accept. It doesn't mean that what you do isn't difficult, but you are not LeBron James. You are not Usain Bolt. You are not Geb. You are not Tiger Woods. You are much closer to the those guys that see how many pencils that can balance on their head in the back of Guinness Book of World records. That's cool, I couldn't do it, but you are not a world class athlete in any sense.
Please let me know the race you are the most proud of your finish time. I will fly out and run it and beat your time by a lot. Then maybe you’ll agree to see my viewpoint on this? 100 miler, 200 miler, through a desert, summiting a 14er, bring it on!
For example, Jacob Kiplimo can become an elite trail runner in 1 year of dedicated training and legitimately take UTMB. Walmsley/Jornet/Roche can hop into a time machine and go back to their mid-teens and specifically train for the marathon for as long as that possibly could and would never crack 2:10.
elite trails runners vs elite marathoners isn’t comparing apples to oranges. More like macintosh to a honey crisp. Trail running isn’t rocket science. It’s quite simple to understand. It is the pickleball and frisbee golf of the running world
Ok tough guy. Please fly out and break my record at Pikes Peak Ascent.
I'll add another one to the list: You will never find a World class track guy challenging random letsrun posters to races like this is a middle school lunch table. How do you expect me to take your sport seriously when you don't even do it?
This sounds good but is simply not correct. Do you debate whether an 800 meter runner or the 5k runner is the better athlete? Maybe they are equally good, but at different things. The mistake you are making is to assume that elite road marathoning translates directly to a 100 mile mountain race with 10,000 meters of climbing. Even at the elite D1 level track times do not correlate directly to XC times and you are talking about 8k of racing with far fewer variables. While fueling has been mentioned, the biggest variable is the ability to climb well. Elite marathoners have never done this while the top trail runners have practiced for years. Being efficient and dynamic on the downhills also counts for a lot. You can't just assume that because Walmsley is a sub elite marathoner than an elite marathoner would beat him easily in a completely different race that is 4 times longer with tremendous vertical gain.
A 1:41 800m guy or a 12:40 5k guy are both true one in a billion type humans. Just like 105 mpw pitchers or guys who can lift 2000 pounds. The fact that no one person can do all of these things is irrelevant. Top ultra runners are simply not these types of people, even though they like to think they are. They are mostly failed marathoners and/or washed up college runners. No one who has achieved the previous feats started because they were mediocre at a slightly different version of their sport.
You will never see a woman set a men's 5k world record. You will never see a man pick up middle distance running in his 30s and pop off a 1:39 800m. The equivalent of both of these has happened in ultra running. It's not because the sport is "different" it's because it is simply less competitive, both historically and currently.
I don't know why it is so hard for ultra runners to accept. It doesn't mean that what you do isn't difficult, but you are not LeBron James. You are not Usain Bolt. You are not Geb. You are not Tiger Woods. You are much closer to the those guys that see how many pencils that can balance on their head in the back of Guinness Book of World records. That's cool, I couldn't do it, but you are not a world class athlete in any sense.
Literally nobody is making the argument you claim we are making. We are well aware the talent pool isn't as deep in ultras as it is in track/road racing. But its a different type onumbness and it doesnt translate quite as smoothly as you might think it does. Thats all we're saying numbnuts.
A 1:41 800m guy or a 12:40 5k guy are both true one in a billion type humans. Just like 105 mpw pitchers or guys who can lift 2000 pounds. The fact that no one person can do all of these things is irrelevant. Top ultra runners are simply not these types of people, even though they like to think they are. They are mostly failed marathoners and/or washed up college runners. No one who has achieved the previous feats started because they were mediocre at a slightly different version of their sport.
You will never see a woman set a men's 5k world record. You will never see a man pick up middle distance running in his 30s and pop off a 1:39 800m. The equivalent of both of these has happened in ultra running. It's not because the sport is "different" it's because it is simply less competitive, both historically and currently.
I don't know why it is so hard for ultra runners to accept. It doesn't mean that what you do isn't difficult, but you are not LeBron James. You are not Usain Bolt. You are not Geb. You are not Tiger Woods. You are much closer to the those guys that see how many pencils that can balance on their head in the back of Guinness Book of World records. That's cool, I couldn't do it, but you are not a world class athlete in any sense.
Literally nobody is making the argument you claim we are making. We are well aware the talent pool isn't as deep in ultras as it is in track/road racing. But its a different type onumbness and it doesnt translate quite as smoothly as you might think it does. Thats all we're saying numbnuts.
A 1:41 800m guy or a 12:40 5k guy are both true one in a billion type humans. Just like 105 mpw pitchers or guys who can lift 2000 pounds. The fact that no one person can do all of these things is irrelevant. Top ultra runners are simply not these types of people, even though they like to think they are. They are mostly failed marathoners and/or washed up college runners. No one who has achieved the previous feats started because they were mediocre at a slightly different version of their sport.
You will never see a woman set a men's 5k world record. You will never see a man pick up middle distance running in his 30s and pop off a 1:39 800m. The equivalent of both of these has happened in ultra running. It's not because the sport is "different" it's because it is simply less competitive, both historically and currently.
I don't know why it is so hard for ultra runners to accept. It doesn't mean that what you do isn't difficult, but you are not LeBron James. You are not Usain Bolt. You are not Geb. You are not Tiger Woods. You are much closer to the those guys that see how many pencils that can balance on their head in the back of Guinness Book of World records. That's cool, I couldn't do it, but you are not a world class athlete in any sense.
Literally nobody is making the argument you claim we are making. We are well aware the talent pool isn't as deep in ultras as it is in track/road racing. But its a different type onumbness and it doesnt translate quite as smoothly as you might think it does. Thats all we're saying numbnuts.
Well I'm not the one you need to tell that to. All the normies who have been to lead to believe that hiking 50 miles is more impressive than a sub 14 minute 5k by ultra runners podcast bros are the ones who need to hear it. They do genuinely believe that a guy who powerhikes for a day is equal or even better than a 2:05 marathoner in athletic ability.
It's ultra runners inflated egos that are responsible for this, and I'm doing my part to pop that balloon.
That is what I thought, just your standard blow hard poster full of hot air. The route is open until the snow flies. Make a weekend out of it. It is just a half marathon, only a jog at 9min miles. Should be simple for you.
No worries bruv. I’ve actually been out there a few times before and was already planning a trip for next June to stay in manitou springs. I’ll hit the incline for my warmup before my ascent. 17 minutes sounds reasonable enough. Btw, pretending to be an actual record holding trail runner on letsrun is kinda a weird thing to do. But everyone has their kinks
I don't know why it is so hard for ultra runners to accept. It doesn't mean that what you do isn't difficult, but you are not LeBron James. You are not Usain Bolt. You are not Geb. You are not Tiger Woods. You are much closer to the those guys that see how many pencils that can balance on their head in the back of Guinness Book of World records. That's cool, I couldn't do it, but you are not a world class athlete in any sense.
Imagine if the beast Kipchoge ran UTMB this weekend. It would be insane. He’d probably run it in 18 and change hours. He could take a nap and Tom Evans, Francois Dhahene, Ben Dhiman, etc would still have a hard time catching up to him. It wouldn’t be fair even. Puppi and Eli Hemming may cry as well in CCC. How amazing do you think Kipchoge would do at UTMB events?
pretty darn good. mr kip.
i suspect no peds in this one.
wihout the super shoes it is about a 212.
jack foster of new zealand ran 211 at age 41 in 1974, for silver comminwealth, on a non perfect couse.
just sayin.
i saw jack run in person, and he made us youngins look stupid.
*20hour. Of course he’d win a 20mile race with little change in prep
Of course the titre of the first post gives away the obvious troll, but why not feeding trolls on letsrun after all.
A few things need to be said:
- Kipchoge with little change in prep would absolutely loose to Patrick Kipngeno or Philemon Kiriago in Sierre Zinal, which not only is 20 miles, but also very road-runners-friendly.
- Joyline won OCC in addition to sierre Zinal this year. She obviously trains mainly in kenya and is kenyan, so there's no reason to doubt a kenyan focusing on trails for several years couldn't perform in a 60k trail race with 20000ft of vert.
- by european standards, utmb is NOT very technical terrain. It's very often runnable by elites. CCC and even more so this year OCC are on average less technical than UTMB.
- Dealing with the night in Col de la Seigne is something that needs specific prep and experience. Especially this year.
Imagine if the beast Kipchoge ran UTMB this weekend. It would be insane. He’d probably run it in 18 and change hours. He could take a nap and Tom Evans, Francois Dhahene, Ben Dhiman, etc would still have a hard time catching up to him. It wouldn’t be fair even. Puppi and Eli Hemming may cry as well in CCC. How amazing do you think Kipchoge would do at UTMB events?
Ultra marathon runners are NOT REAL ATHLETES. They are glorified hikers that are masquerading as athletes just dreading the day when a REAL ATHLETE decides to run an Ultra and reset the record books.
Imagine if the beast Kipchoge ran UTMB this weekend. It would be insane. He’d probably run it in 18 and change hours. He could take a nap and Tom Evans, Francois Dhahene, Ben Dhiman, etc would still have a hard time catching up to him. It wouldn’t be fair even. Puppi and Eli Hemming may cry as well in CCC. How amazing do you think Kipchoge would do at UTMB events?
Ultra marathon runners are NOT REAL ATHLETES. They are glorified hikers that are masquerading as athletes just dreading the day when a REAL ATHLETE decides to run an Ultra and reset the record books.
Jim Walmsley set for example his track PRs 2012 as 22yo.- 3000m steeple 8:41,05 , 5000m 13:52,87
3000m as 20yo - 8:03,58
Not good enough to be called a „real athlete“ ?
We can speculate how fast he was able to run at later years, but he decided to leave track after 2012 for whatever reasons ( most likely it was passion for trail running )