Damn, now you'll have to select from the glut of NCAA and global professionals running meets every week instead of being entertained by literal teenage strangers who have high variations in training intensity and physical maturity.
It's hilarious that OP thinks a sub 4 today is only worth 4:08 with old shoes. Why haven't the top times in the world gotten faster? World leaders are still running 3:27-3:28 just like they were 15+ years ago. The difference is there's way more depth now, and we have more Americans competing at a world class level due to more Americans doing great training at earlier ages. Very few people knew how to train well 20 years ago, now social media and the internet has made it so it's easy to see what the top people in the world are doing and young people can mimic it.
Evidence shows that bouncy shoes provide no significant advantage over non-bouncy shoes. Ditch the bouncy shoes - you’re just wasting your money on garbage. But somethin’ tells me you won’t. And neither will 100% of those currently using. Why is that?
It's hilarious that OP thinks a sub 4 today is only worth 4:08 with old shoes. Why haven't the top times in the world gotten faster? World leaders are still running 3:27-3:28 just like they were 15+ years ago. The difference is there's way more depth now, and we have more Americans competing at a world class level due to more Americans doing great training at earlier ages. Very few people knew how to train well 20 years ago, now social media and the internet has made it so it's easy to see what the top people in the world are doing and young people can mimic it.
Evidence shows that bouncy shoes provide no significant advantage over non-bouncy shoes. Ditch the bouncy shoes - you’re just wasting your money on garbage. But somethin’ tells me you won’t. And neither will 100% of those currently using. Why is that?
Its good see. The progression is happening quick. The depth and quality is mindboggling.
The internet in the late 90's transformed the sport.
Athletes now know who they are racing. Results are available, seed sheets are available.
Coaching is better and proven methods are available for all to see.
Smart watches are available
Athletes are more knowledgeable can communicate with each other. Colleges are much more visible.
There are more youth and middle school programs. Parents who ran themselves are more numerous.
Nutrition is different
The tracks are faster
States have gradually made changes to schedules (less duel meets)
Shoe companies have provided good opportunities for kids to market themselves against strong competition.
There are many meets streamed.
The new shoes help. Ten years ago I would laugh if someone said such improvements from shoes.
One meet would make the meet even more competitive. Perhaps a media outlet could pay large sums to have one national championships.
I think they just need to stop labeling themselves "Nationals". I know that's part of the draw but when we have four different meets sponsored by four different shoe companies, no one is going to give up their big meet that is getting plenty of exposure for the brand and the kids so that we can have ONE "Nationals". They are all big post season invitationals essentially.
Watching teenagers compete against each other is bizarre and only something Americans do for a good reason.
If a teenager is good enough to compete against adult professionals then they should be able to do it, without being held back by the high school or NCAA system.
This post was edited 7 minutes after it was posted.
What is the breakpoint for entering school in most states?
Where I grew up, it was Dec 31, meaning that everyone started kindergarten in the calendar year they turned 5, first grade the year they turned 6, up to entering senior year the same calendar year you turned 17 and graduating in the year you turned 18.
So as of senior graduation, about half of kids had turned 18, and about half were still 17. NONE would be older than 18y6m.
NOW, I am hearing from parents about kids born in Oct-Nov-Dec of 2020 who are not entering school in 2025 -- so they will 5y9m to 5y-11m old when they start kindergarten in 2026... and some of them 18y9m at their high school grad!
- Kids who don't run with school teams, but instead chase times in "elite" races.
- Multiple "National Championships" which create chaos and dilute talent.
- Abundance of overage seniors.
- Shoes are the final nail in the coffin. Multiple sub-4s every year, which should be 4:08s or thereabouts.
It's all way too clinical and phoned-in. Too many "good runners" to keep track of. Vibes are just off. Really just interested in my local/state stuff now.
You're describing an incredibly small population of athletes relative to all high school runners. How many of those runners going sub-4:00 are on the average high school team? The number is much much smaller than 1.
All the ones you mention have their sights set beyond high school anyway. They're thinking ahead to college and even becoming a professional - it happens in every sport. Most high school track and field / XC athletes are normal kids out there having fun and hoping to a PB in the next race, not planning to get entry to a national championship meet or even race at their State meet.
Running is hard and painful at times at every level. It takes sacrifice. You might be working to become a sub-20 5k guy or trying to produce a sub 5:00 mile, but I assure you these kids are enjoying it. It's too hard to not be getting something good out of it.
Simply sounds like you are focused on the parts of high school running that you don't enjoy. Congrats on being able to identify what you don't enjoy.
Let those go and I bet you'll enjoy high school running a bit more.
Or, assuming you're a grown adult...maybe don't follow high school sports at all?!
Its good see. The progression is happening quick. The depth and quality is mindboggling.
The internet in the late 90's transformed the sport.
Athletes now know who they are racing. Results are available, seed sheets are available.
Coaching is better and proven methods are available for all to see.
Smart watches are available
Athletes are more knowledgeable can communicate with each other. Colleges are much more visible.
There are more youth and middle school programs. Parents who ran themselves are more numerous.
Nutrition is different
The tracks are faster
States have gradually made changes to schedules (less duel meets)
Shoe companies have provided good opportunities for kids to market themselves against strong competition.
There are many meets streamed.
The new shoes help. Ten years ago I would laugh if someone said such improvements from shoes.
One meet would make the meet even more competitive. Perhaps a media outlet could pay large sums to have one national championships.
I think they just need to stop labeling themselves "Nationals". I know that's part of the draw but when we have four different meets sponsored by four different shoe companies, no one is going to give up their big meet that is getting plenty of exposure for the brand and the kids so that we can have ONE "Nationals". They are all big post season invitationals essentially.
I have no problem with the term 'nationals". In many other sports, 'nationals 'simply means a national level competition/invitational - not necessarily a singular championship.
Damn, now you'll have to select from the glut of NCAA and global professionals running meets every week instead of being entertained by literal teenage strangers who have high variations in training intensity and physical maturity.
What the hell is "literal teenage strangers"?
This shouldn't require explainantion, but it's meant to stress the absurdity of being opinionated on the performance of youth athletes to whom you have zero connection outside of spectating for entertainment.
being from the 80’s, I commonly hear similar remarks about the shoes from “has beens” my age. Ego is a hard thing to overcome. I’m positive the shoes in my era were way faster than the ones Jim Ryun ran in, not to mention the tracks.
It is inevitable progression needs to happen to keep the sport moving. I had National leading times back then that would now list me at #20 for the year now. I love it.
although the internet was not around in the 80’s, I don’t recall Ryun and company complaining the Nike Olympic Zoom D should be outlawed. Until there are roller skates on the bottom of the spikes, I will stay quiet and applaud this generation with the super fast times. If you were state champ back in your day…..it’s the same as if you were today.
Canadians are 19 years old when they graduate from HS.
"Former" is right.
You are out of touch, probably back to the time when Ontario had a 13th grade year.
Canadians turn 18 in the same calendar year they graduate high school; they are typically 17 or 18 at the time of grad in June and the start of freshman year in college.
- Kids who don't run with school teams, but instead chase times in "elite" races.
- Multiple "National Championships" which create chaos and dilute talent.
- Abundance of overage seniors.
- Shoes are the final nail in the coffin. Multiple sub-4s every year, which should be 4:08s or thereabouts.
It's all way too clinical and phoned-in. Too many "good runners" to keep track of. Vibes are just off. Really just interested in my local/state stuff now.
Also recruiting and transfers and a team becomes an “all star team”
- Kids who don't run with school teams, but instead chase times in "elite" races.
- Multiple "National Championships" which create chaos and dilute talent.
- Abundance of overage seniors.
- Shoes are the final nail in the coffin. Multiple sub-4s every year, which should be 4:08s or thereabouts.
It's all way too clinical and phoned-in. Too many "good runners" to keep track of. Vibes are just off. Really just interested in my local/state stuff now.
I feel the same way about those baby crawling races they do between innings at minor league baseball stadiums. Total snoozers. The kids all compete unattached, there’s no way to verify ages, the races happen all over the country which creates chaos and dilutes talent, and I have no idea what the shoe standards are.
re "nationals," surely there is a hierarchy. like in soccer what you REALLY want to win is USYSA's summer nationals (with U19 being mcguire cup). or you'd want to get invited to one of the big international tournaments like dallas cup. president's cup exists but it's like consolation. then select is esteemed over HS. there are spring and fall HS rankings for a national champion, and you'd be proud if you won it, but there's no tournament, half the country plays the other season, and everyone knows your select would drub your HS.
so, cut the crap, which one is the big deal? U20 and then what. i only did HS and college, not the postseason nationals stuff, but there's gotta be a pecking order.
that and personally i'd rather have "some live championship(s)" - even more than one -- than it just be a ranking or performance list where few raced each other and it's part beauty contest.
re super shoes, people from the earlier decades had dirt or cinder tracks, ran in leather spikes or something out of the bin, no carbon fiber, less dietary understanding, some goofy training ideas, no popup tents, etc.
my general impression is an elite few who get access to pro meets are faster. but that generally your average kid might be slightly slower. that the kid who would win my meet might be faster but i would actually do better in the state progression now.
also, i feel like the obsessives hand it "all" to shoes when it's a set of factors, training, diet, health monitoring, tracks, and then yes, shoes. but which ones in what percentages.