How do you feel about a guy who is a 3:31/3:30 high guy for 3.5 years, then lowers his PB by 3 SECONDS to 3:27.6 in a single race (going sub 3:30/3:29/3:28 all at once!), then goes back to being a 3:31 guy?
Even if you’re going by this logic, he returned to being a 3:29-hi to 3:30 guy. But he ran 7:23, which is worth a 3:28 so…
Do you really believe that there is a superhuman metabolism attainable through 'doping'?
Or does the question hurt your brain too much to even think about it?
Yes, doping works. I believe that drugs and chemicals can influence metabolic systems and blood chemistry.
We know for a fact that it is true in the medical field and in daily life, so we know it is also true in sports. Have you ever taken medicine? Did it work? Chemistry is not just a bunch of placebos.
Athletes are not immune to the laws of human metabolism, in fact, because they are outliers to begin with, we can assume some are high responders to steroids and blood-boosters and vasodilators, etc.
I rewatched the 2016 NCAA 1500 final yesterday, and they bragged about Issac Yorks being a 3:54 miler indoors lolllll.
Now this year, a 3:48 indoor miler can't win the NCAA 1500 outdoors, we have two HS seniors running 3:36 in one race, etc etc etc
If that game has changed here, why is it so hard to believe it's changed elsewhere? Or are these US HS and college kids to the gills too?
This is the best case for there not being some new doping epidemic at elite levels, absent of better negative evidence. Everyone is getting uniformly faster, even 16 year olds.
Ignore him. Clowns that call PEDs a ‘concept’ are stretching it thin in terms of covering for their beloved third world cheats who have so much leeway and get so many winks and nods it’s destroyed the sport.
You guys need to believe how powerful bi-carb is too. Controlled threshold training during base allowing a higher ceiling for specific period. Super shoes in training allowing for higher stimulus and lower body impact while maintaining threshold. Recover faster all the time.
Bi-carb in hard workouts allowing to go much deeper in key workouts. Bi-carb in races, operate faster pace earlier on and don’t die.
Heat training when not at altitude to maintain hemoglobin mass and all high altitude gains. Can train HARD and still recover at sea level while doing heat protocol training 5times per week.
Wave light.. visual stimulation to keep it even early on and then chase when it gets very very tough.
Rojo: When I pushed back and said African runners have been naturally doing some sort of double threshold work for 50 years as they often start super slow but end up near their threshold, I got the following reply:
Have they done lactate threshold profiling testing and running directly below their LT1 in the morning then LT2 in evening… accumulating more and more minutes over the base block and then using it the day after huge workouts too?? Yes they run around their LT. No they don’t have any kind of scientific control over long periods to really maximize that type of training
Hahaha. Baking soda and saunas? Hahahah. And you have so many likes. Unreal .
At 31 years old, Azeddine Habz has gone from also-ran to all-time great. He didn’t even make the Olympic final last year and is now the 6th fastest man in history, ahead of all three Paris medalists. Jakob has only run faster twice. This progression is incredibly inspiring and reminds me of the great warrior of poetry Mohamed Katir!
There are probably three people on the planet who had heard of Phanuel Kipkosgei Koech before today. He is best known for finishing behind Nico Young in a road mile in April and running a blistering 1:47 800m in May. Anyone shocked by his 3:27.72 today clearly hasn’t been paying attention to this rising star!
Remember George Mills, that B tier athlete who had his breakthrough in 2023 and reached fringe elite status? Last year he failed to make the 1500m final and was 21st in the 5k, today he’s a 3:28/12:46 man. Amazing what (less than) a year can do!
Serious question: Is there anyone with a brain who thinks these results are legit?
It’s amazing what you can do when you know have a time trial as a race rather than the American style of jog round and pertain you are not a failed 200m sprinter but you know American coaches only know how to do successful sprints.
Not going to argue on the first two, but at least for George Mills, he had Covid during the Olympics. Add to that, he tripped and fell in the 5k on the home straight. That "21st place" is wildly out of context. He finished 3rd in the Bowerman mile behind Jakob and Nuguse in 2023, and ran a 12:58 5k debut in Boston in 2024. Its not out of this world to believe that his progression is natural. Definite? No. But possible? yes.
Even if 21st isn't representative of Mills' 5k potential, it doesn't change the fact that his progression is beyond belief. He was never a factor in the 1500 at the European level, let alone on the world stage, before today. Sure, he was 3rd at Pre, but for all intents and purposes he wasn't even in the same race as Jakob and Yared.
A 3:30.95 guy (who's only gone under 3:32 a few times) just ran 3:28.36 out of nowhere. If I didn't know any better I'd say the track is short or they started at the wrong spot because the times are completely unbelievable. Whatever hit the 800 last year seems to have reached the 1500.
Ok genius, if the track is short then every race would have had times that were super fast. Please try to use common sense. I guarantee if it were 2 white American men running those times there wouldn't be one single complaint on this board.
Do you really believe that there is a superhuman metabolism attainable through 'doping'?
Or does the question hurt your brain too much to even think about it?
Yes, doping works. I believe that drugs and chemicals can influence metabolic systems and blood chemistry.
We know for a fact that it is true in the medical field and in daily life, so we know it is also true in sports. Have you ever taken medicine? Did it work? Chemistry is not just a bunch of placebos.
Athletes are not immune to the laws of human metabolism, in fact, because they are outliers to begin with, we can assume some are high responders to steroids and blood-boosters and vasodilators, etc.
If Habz wasn't doping, I'd be surprised. I saw him running decently well indoors and thought it was nice to see him doing well but this 3:27 is too much.
Why is it too much for Habz when the whole field except one PBed by roughly a similar amount? Adding to wejo's post #15, here is how much everyone PBed by:
You have French, Kenyans, British, Dutch, Belgians, and a South African. What do they have in common? This race and this track.
wejo, can we please be able to spell people's names like Tsh1te using the proper spelling? What if this guy becomes a regular subject, and the non-mods always have to spell his name incorrectly? Same thing for Yuta Sh!tara and similar names?
I rewatched the 2016 NCAA 1500 final yesterday, and they bragged about Issac Yorks being a 3:54 miler indoors lolllll.
Now this year, a 3:48 indoor miler can't win the NCAA 1500 outdoors, we have two HS seniors running 3:36 in one race, etc etc etc
If that game has changed here, why is it so hard to believe it's changed elsewhere? Or are these US HS and college kids to the gills too?
This is the best case for there not being some new doping epidemic at elite levels, absent of better negative evidence. Everyone is getting uniformly faster, even 16 year olds.
I love reading the naive views from people mimicking what they're told are the reasons athletes are going faster. There is no new training, it's all versions of old training repackaged....but it makes me smile.
Bi carb is not new for distance athletes, it's just been made easier to take, and mass marketable as a supplement. You are being marketed to, it's is not a reason .
Shoe tech is making a difference, and wave light is definitely aiding world record attempts, but that doesn't explain massive leaps for different athletes.
The answer is what it's always been. PEDS. It might be that more western athletes are hopping on the east African train and some balance is coming back. TBH it's about time. If you can't beat them you might as well join them.
You could be accused of being me - but you're not. But you're on the right track.
Sorry, that is nonsense. 4 seconds at that level is an eternity.
Like always you're talking about something you know nothing about. 1s per lap improvement is no problem given technological advancements.
I can tell you have never trained in the stadium with running shoes vs spikes. Then you would now how much footwear alone impacts the speed.
The spikes don't give 4 seconds advantage over 4 laps. If so, El G could have run 3:22. Or Ingebrigtsen could only run 3:30.7 in the older shoes. Or everyone would have improved 4 seconds at least when the shoes came in - which was several years ago. They haven't. And all this time doping has continued to be developed to the highest level of sophistication and athletes have continued to dope.
Don't think people are factoring in the track itself enough with these times. They built it fresh for the Olympics to be as fast as possible. That combined with perfect conditions and pacing and guys can run the race of their lives.
The whole field did. What a coincidence. Interesting that.
If Habz wasn't doping, I'd be surprised. I saw him running decently well indoors and thought it was nice to see him doing well but this 3:27 is too much.
Why is it too much for Habz when the whole field except one PBed by roughly a similar amount? Adding to wejo's post #15, here is how much everyone PBed by:
You have French, Kenyans, British, Dutch, Belgians, and a South African. What do they have in common? This race and this track.
wejo, can we please be able to spell people's names like Tsh1te using the proper spelling? What if this guy becomes a regular subject, and the non-mods always have to spell his name incorrectly? Same thing for Yuta Sh!tara and similar names?