Hayden you are right, I apologize. That was unnecessary. The bigger issue was the onscreen timing situation that made it confusing to follow the race and moment accurately.
Take care and thanks for your contributions to the event and athletics in NZ.
It's now a doped sport - like cycling, weightlifting and bodybuilding. WADA lumps them together for risk of doping.
So you think a 15 year old is doped. Extraordinary accusations require extraordinary proof.
Armstronglvs is correct and also incorrect. It is a doped sport but that doesn't mean that every great performance is due to doping. The comparison with Ryun keeps coming up with the question of how a younger kid could run as fast as a great prodigy like Ryun did. I don't have a problem believing it's possible and could be done cleanly.
In the first place, this isn't Jim Ryun's 3:58. Sam Ruthe has faster tracks and shoes than Ryun did. He had what was essentially professional pace making. Ryun did not. I'd say that with the same circumstances Ryun had Sam's time might have been in the 4:02-4:04 range, still tremendous but maybe not enough to set someone like Armstronglvs into a tizzy.
This is not a knock on Bob Timmons who got some very good results outside of Ryun. But he was a swimming coach feeling his way into coaching runners. Craig Kirkwood figured out how to train as a high school kid and did it well enough to get a scholarship to the University of Oklahoma, then went on to race in Europe for a while while living and training with some of the best track runners of the time. So I think Ruthe had better coaching than Ryun did.
Sam has a training partner who's run under 3:50 for the mile and was a 1500 meter Olympic finalist and another who is a gold medallist in the triathlon. Ryun trained with high school kids. It's pretty commonly believed that training with a good group can have a lot of benefits.
Finally, I read a longish article about Sam and the Ruthe family in an online New Zealand newspaper a couple days ago. They just seem as far from being the kind of parents who would sacrifice their kids' well being for any level of athletic achievement as can be.
Of course if you're really committed to believing that doping is the only way to achieve something spectacular in this sport you'll reject any explanations as to how the athlete managed to achieve what he has that doesn't involve doping.
At 15 years, 11 months and 7 days old he would be the youngest human in history (unofficial but as official as possible I guess) to record a sub 4 mile.
Ethan Smolej the NZ 800m champion is pacing with targets of 58 through 409, 1.59 at 809 and Sam Tanner will then take it on to 2.58 with a lap to go. Weather for Auckland tonight is for 60 (15 degrees C) wind around 10mph (16 km/h).
Mt Smart held the Commonwealth Games in 1990 but this isn't the main stadium as the track is now only in what was the warmup arena. Seen some great battles over 1500m including that Comm games final where Walker was famously tripped by Pat "Inspector Gadget" Scammell in what was his final international race ever in a race won by the Rotherham Rocket Peter Elliot. Also a famous battle between kiwi thoroughbreds Phil Clode and Robbie "Kramer" Johnston at the 92 Smokefrees won by RJ.
Should be a good one. If they get the first lap right I predict 3.57.3 for Ruthe but honestly, I feel like this could be a conservative number...
Within 10 years a 13 year old will break a 4 minute mile. Where does this madness end. Prediction people. What will Sam Ruthe PR be in 10 years from now in 1500m/mile? I say 3:25.78/ 3:42.65
The kid's future looks as bright as can be right now. But kids change as they get out of high school and begin developing into the adults they'll be. Interests and priorities change. Some early age results are due to very early physical maturity and don't leave much room for improvements as adults. And the pressure of expectations can destroy someone's love for their sport and their desire to keep on with it.
If he's my son I'm telling him how proud and thrilled I am with what he's done so far not just because of his results but because he's found something he loves doing and is good at. My concern for his running future is not how fast he'll run but that he'll keep loving it and doing it because he wants to.
Maybe a 13 year old eventually will run under four minutes for the mile. But maybe not. There are always limits.
Not to take anything away from him, because its an incredible accomplishment. However, the kid doesn't have the body of a 15 year old. The freshman in high school that I see around that age, are a lot less mature and their speed tends to come as they gain testosterone and their bodies mature.
Not to take anything away from him, because it’s an incredible accomplishment. However, the kid doesn't have the body of a 15 year old. The freshman in high school that I see around that age, are a lot less mature and their speed tends to come as they gain testosterone and their bodies mature.
I’d say most 15 year olds are built like that here in nz. Maybe the low test American boys who run aren’t. Not the case here though.
So you think a 15 year old is doped. Extraordinary accusations require extraordinary proof.
Armstronglvs is correct and also incorrect. It is a doped sport but that doesn't mean that every great performance is due to doping. The comparison with Ryun keeps coming up with the question of how a younger kid could run as fast as a great prodigy like Ryun did. I don't have a problem believing it's possible and could be done cleanly.
In the first place, this isn't Jim Ryun's 3:58. Sam Ruthe has faster tracks and shoes than Ryun did. He had what was essentially professional pace making. Ryun did not. I'd say that with the same circumstances Ryun had Sam's time might have been in the 4:02-4:04 range, still tremendous but maybe not enough to set someone like Armstronglvs into a tizzy.
This is not a knock on Bob Timmons who got some very good results outside of Ryun. But he was a swimming coach feeling his way into coaching runners. Craig Kirkwood figured out how to train as a high school kid and did it well enough to get a scholarship to the University of Oklahoma, then went on to race in Europe for a while while living and training with some of the best track runners of the time. So I think Ruthe had better coaching than Ryun did.
Sam has a training partner who's run under 3:50 for the mile and was a 1500 meter Olympic finalist and another who is a gold medallist in the triathlon. Ryun trained with high school kids. It's pretty commonly believed that training with a good group can have a lot of benefits.
Finally, I read a longish article about Sam and the Ruthe family in an online New Zealand newspaper a couple days ago. They just seem as far from being the kind of parents who would sacrifice their kids' well being for any level of athletic achievement as can be.
Of course if you're really committed to believing that doping is the only way to achieve something spectacular in this sport you'll reject any explanations as to how the athlete managed to achieve what he has that doesn't involve doping.
But it's also incorrect / ignorant to just blanket refer to T&F (and cycling) as 'doped sports' now.
I'm almost certain Armstrong, for all his aspersions, has no comprehension of the biological passport & whereabouts system. This has materially changing the landscape for use of performance enhancing drugs.
If anything the period of Ryun et al is more questionable with completely unregulated use of amphetamines and other substances in the 1960s (& earlier). But obviously Armstrong is just here for some bad vibe / bad faith argument that upholds that period as some Neverland version of perfection and we're to believe that today there are 14-15 year old kids shooting up blood bags.
Armstronglvs is correct and also incorrect. It is a doped sport but that doesn't mean that every great performance is due to doping. The comparison with Ryun keeps coming up with the question of how a younger kid could run as fast as a great prodigy like Ryun did. I don't have a problem believing it's possible and could be done cleanly.
In the first place, this isn't Jim Ryun's 3:58. Sam Ruthe has faster tracks and shoes than Ryun did. He had what was essentially professional pace making. Ryun did not. I'd say that with the same circumstances Ryun had Sam's time might have been in the 4:02-4:04 range, still tremendous but maybe not enough to set someone like Armstronglvs into a tizzy.
This is not a knock on Bob Timmons who got some very good results outside of Ryun. But he was a swimming coach feeling his way into coaching runners. Craig Kirkwood figured out how to train as a high school kid and did it well enough to get a scholarship to the University of Oklahoma, then went on to race in Europe for a while while living and training with some of the best track runners of the time. So I think Ruthe had better coaching than Ryun did.
Sam has a training partner who's run under 3:50 for the mile and was a 1500 meter Olympic finalist and another who is a gold medallist in the triathlon. Ryun trained with high school kids. It's pretty commonly believed that training with a good group can have a lot of benefits.
Finally, I read a longish article about Sam and the Ruthe family in an online New Zealand newspaper a couple days ago. They just seem as far from being the kind of parents who would sacrifice their kids' well being for any level of athletic achievement as can be.
Of course if you're really committed to believing that doping is the only way to achieve something spectacular in this sport you'll reject any explanations as to how the athlete managed to achieve what he has that doesn't involve doping.
But it's also incorrect / ignorant to just blanket refer to T&F (and cycling) as 'doped sports' now.
I'm almost certain Armstrong, for all his aspersions, has no comprehension of the biological passport & whereabouts system. This has materially changing the landscape for use of performance enhancing drugs.
If anything the period of Ryun et al is more questionable with completely unregulated use of amphetamines and other substances in the 1960s (& earlier). But obviously Armstrong is just here for some bad vibe / bad faith argument that upholds that period as some Neverland version of perfection and we're to believe that today there are 14-15 year old kids shooting up blood bags.
The biological passport/whereabouts system only seems to catch indians,turks,russians,B list kenyans and a few others,whilst others from wealthier countries are very well protected,and never get caught.If they do get caught,its swept under a rug.Why is this? Follow the money.
Not to take anything away from him, because its an incredible accomplishment. However, the kid doesn't have the body of a 15 year old. The freshman in high school that I see around that age, are a lot less mature and their speed tends to come as they gain testosterone and their bodies mature.
15 is just on the other side of puberty for most that age.
I'm Sams Dad. He's a pretty normal kid in every way (including his maturity) except he can run fast and has an incredibly calm temperament. He loves to run with his mates and just has a joy for the sport. He doesn't really understand what he's done, as you don't when you are 15. We have the greatest support around us, a wonderful coach and training partners. Our kids didn't even know that Nanna won a Commonwealth Gold in the 800m or Poppa set a debut Marathon world record until they were about 10 years old. Nanna and Poppa don't have running photos or trophies displayed and as my wife Jess (who has made 4 world Cross country teams and won dozens of national titles) says, "it's only running".
The most important thing for us is that we grow a good human, a kind, humble and thoughtful kid that help others. We are truely lucky to have Sam and Daisy as our children and they are just the joy if our lives. Whatever will be will be. We will always support them and help them through whatever challenges they face, good and bad. We know tough days will come in life and we will be there along with all the other wonderful people they are surrounded by.
Thanks for everyone that offers support and encouragement. Jess and I watch on as fans and parents and greatly appreciate it.
Cheers
Ben
This post was edited 3 minutes after it was posted.
Not to take anything away from him, because its an incredible accomplishment. However, the kid doesn't have the body of a 15 year old. The freshman in high school that I see around that age, are a lot less mature and their speed tends to come as they gain testosterone and their bodies mature.
15 is just on the other side of puberty for most that age.
Yeah, I posted about this a few days ago. In the race video, he looks like a young man in his late teens or early 20s while running. He blends right in with the men he's competing against.
15 is just on the other side of puberty for most that age.
Yeah, I posted about this a few days ago. In the race video, he looks like a young man in his late teens or early 20s while running. He blends right in with the men he's competing against.
I noticed that as well. Part of it seems to do with his tanned look. Certainly not the usual wimpy body HS JV runner. Let's see how he does in the next few years.
I'm Sams Dad. He's a pretty normal kid in every way (including his maturity) except he can run fast and has an incredibly calm temperament. He loves to run with his mates and just has a joy for the sport. He doesn't really understand what he's done, as you don't when you are 15. We have the greatest support around us, a wonderful coach and training partners. Our kids didn't even know that Nanna won a Commonwealth Gold in the 800m or Poppa set a debut Marathon world record until they were about 10 years old. Nanna and Poppa don't have running photos or trophies displayed and as my wife Jess (who has made 4 world Cross country teams and won dozens of national titles) says, "it's only running".
The most important thing for us is that we grow a good human, a kind, humble and thoughtful kid that help others. We are truely lucky to have Sam and Daisy as our children and they are just the joy if our lives. Whatever will be will be. We will always support them and help them through whatever challenges they face, good and bad. We know tough days will come in life and we will be there along with all the other wonderful people they are surrounded by.
Thanks for everyone that offers support and encouragement. Jess and I watch on as fans and parents and greatly appreciate it.
Cheers
Ben
My kids were the same. Physical maturity is not related to what they like and what they do at certain ages. Our oldest looked younger his younger brother (2 year gap). Their sister was the youngest was more mature than either one when the boys were in HS.