At the high school level, at least in California, boys divisions are NOT open divisions. Females are not allowed to run in them. Trans athletes of either gender have the same requirements in order to compete in the gender of their choice. If it is not what the people want, then why is it a law? Even if the people do not directly vote on these laws, they vote for the people who do vote for these laws. Just because there are more people against trans who are very outspoken than people who are for trans who are outspoken, those who are for trans still largely outweigh those who don't believe in equality.
What about equality for actual women? Males should only compete against males.
At the high school level, at least in California, boys divisions are NOT open divisions. Females are not allowed to run in them. Trans athletes of either gender have the same requirements in order to compete in the gender of their choice. If it is not what the people want, then why is it a law? Even if the people do not directly vote on these laws, they vote for the people who do vote for these laws. Just because there are more people against trans who are very outspoken than people who are for trans who are outspoken, those who are for trans still largely outweigh those who don't believe in equality.
What about equality for actual women? Males should only compete against males.
what about equality for ALL PEOPLE? I agree that actual women deserve equality. And they have it. They are not forced to run in the boys divisions. They do not have their mere existence debated over the internet. Trans people do. And trans women are real women. If a person has a v****a, b**bs, higher levels of estrogen, normal amounts of muscle compared to cis-women, then who are you to say they are not an actual women. And I know you will probably bring up chromosomes, but you cant tell someones chromosomes just by looking at them.
What about equality for actual women? Males should only compete against males.
what about equality for ALL PEOPLE? I agree that actual women deserve equality. And they have it. They are not forced to run in the boys divisions. They do not have their mere existence debated over the internet. Trans people do. And trans women are real women. If a person has a v****a, b**bs, higher levels of estrogen, normal amounts of muscle compared to cis-women, then who are you to say they are not an actual women. And I know you will probably bring up chromosomes, but you cant tell someone’s chromosomes just by looking at them.
“Cis” is a slur, but are you admitting that the only actual women are cis?
At the high school level, at least in California, boys divisions are NOT open divisions. Females are not allowed to run in them. Trans athletes of either gender have the same requirements in order to compete in the gender of their choice. If it is not what the people want, then why is it a law? Even if the people do not directly vote on these laws, they vote for the people who do vote for these laws. Just because there are more people against trans who are very outspoken than people who are for trans who are outspoken, those who are for trans still largely outweigh those who don't believe in equality.
What about equality for actual women? Males should only compete against males.
Women are equal, whatever that means, so there’s no problem. Learn to articulate thoughts more precisely.
what about equality for ALL PEOPLE? I agree that actual women deserve equality. And they have it. They are not forced to run in the boys divisions. They do not have their mere existence debated over the internet. Trans people do. And trans women are real women. If a person has a v****a, b**bs, higher levels of estrogen, normal amounts of muscle compared to cis-women, then who are you to say they are not an actual women. And I know you will probably bring up chromosomes, but you cant tell someone’s chromosomes just by looking at them.
“Cis” is a slur, but are you admitting that the only actual women are cis?
Why is cis a slur and trans isn't? Sure, I can stop calling people cis males and cis females. I just wanted to make sure you knew I was talking about people who aren't trans. But I will gladly call cis-women women if you start calling trans women women. And what makes you think I said only actual women are cis? Trans is the opposite of cis. And trans women are actual women. So are cis women. They are no different than cis women aside from chromosomes and should be treated as such.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
Reason provided:
Clarity
“Cis” is a slur, but are you admitting that the only actual women are cis?
Why is cis a slur and trans isn't? Sure, I can stop calling people cis males and cis females. I just wanted to make sure you knew I was talking about people who aren't trans. But I will gladly call cis-women women if you start calling trans women women. And what makes you think I said only actual women are cis? Trans is the opposite of cis. And trans women are actual women. So are cis women. They are no different than cis women aside from chromosomes and should be treated as such.
Why is cis a slur and trans isn't? Sure, I can stop calling people cis males and cis females. I just wanted to make sure you knew I was talking about people who aren't trans. But I will gladly call cis-women women if you start calling trans women women. And what makes you think I said only actual women are cis? Trans is the opposite of cis. And trans women are actual women. So are cis women. They are no different than cis women aside from chromosomes and should be treated as such.
They’re not women.
How would you know? If someone looks like a women, sounds like a women, goes by a woman's name, and acts like a women, you would never have any idea they were a real, trans, women. I'd guess you have met with a trans women before and had no idea.
we will make an added division for sports and call it the "coed" division. many sports have coed leagues for adults, where men and women play together. everyone can play, no one freaks out about boys and girls same field.
trans? gay? wheelchair/handicapped? special olympics? bored of being stuck on JV and just want something different? varsity says there's no room left? got a little rebel in you? go "coed."
it solves so many things and it'd probably be a joy to watch. we play 1 more soccer or whatever team game in addition to varsity and JV. we add a heat or so to events at track meets, when coed kids want to enter.
and if the bigots oppose it and start ranting again, their pure as driven snow 10th placing daughter is clearly safe in "girls," we have removed that excuse, and it's crystal clear they are just being bigots trying to make certain kids' life hell.
Dude the ONLY people who will be against this are the trans. So we will see who is still ranting
Dude the ONLY people who will be against this are the trans. So we will see who is still ranting
Really? Look at all the vitriol on this board against "nonbinary" division in road races . Are they all written by trans people? I didn't know so many trans people posted on this board. /s
Should some runners be able to openly dope without consequences?
Am I doping? No. I am not on performance enhancing drugs. And unless you have tested my hormone levels, you can not even say I have any advantage over any cisgender female. Not all people with XY have the same hormone levels, and the same go for people with XX chromosomes. In fact, there are plenty of cisgender females who have higher testosterone levels than cisgender males, and vice versa with estrogen. You also do not know if I myself have been on HRT, in which case it is all the more likely that I have similar hormone levels than cisgender girls.
Please don't call people who don't claim to have trans or other special gender identities "cisgender." When you say the human population consists of "transgender" and "cisgender" people, it means you're asssuming the vast majority of human beings believe in the tenets of gender identity ideology and base their sense of self and social identity on the regressive, sexist and shallow sex stereotypes that constitute conventional notions of "femininity" and "masculinity."
I have no issue with you using the labels "transgender" and "cisgender" for those who are adherents of your belief system. But genderists labelling bulk of the population "cisgender" is akin to followers of certain religions calling everyone who doesn't adhere to their own faith "infidels," "heathens" and "heretics" and decreeing that we're all going to hell.
As for what you say about testosterone and estrogen levels in males and females, that's not true in our species across the life cycle.
There's a period of several years duing childhood after mini-puberty of infancy and prior to puberty of adolescence when the testosterone levels of girls and boys are either the same or for a brief moment girls' T levels might be a smidge higher than boys of the same age. And of course, once women are past menopause we naturally have lower estrogen levels than teenage boys and full-grown men.
Also, because human males naturally convert some of the testosterone their testes produce in massive amounts into estrogen via aromatization in some parts of their bodies, such as their reproductive tracts and brains, it could be that males sometimes, usually or always have higher levels of estrogen in specific cells and tissues than females do.
But when we look at the whole course of the human life span from prenatal development into old age, it turns out that overall males naturally have markedly higher levels of total testosteorne and free testosteron in their systems than females do; and during our "reproductive years" human females naturally have higher levels of estrogen than males do.
Mayo Clinic Labs’ Reference Ranges for Total Testosterone Levels Normally Found in Human Blood by Sex and Age in nanograms per deciliter (ng/dL)
Males 19 years and older: 240–950 Females 19 years and older 8–60
Mayo Clinic Labs’ Reference Range for Free aka “Bioavailable” Testosterone Normally Found in Human Blood by Sex and Age, in nanograms per deciliter (ng/dL)
How would you know? If someone looks like a women, sounds like a women, goes by a woman's name, and acts like a women, you would never have any idea they were a real, trans, women. I'd guess you have met with a trans women before and had no idea.
So you're viewing reality from a lens of "if no one can tell I'm really a man then I'm a woman". Makeup, costumery and other special effects are able to fool some people, but not all. You are a man playing dress up, just because you also suffer from myriad mental conditions doesn't give you the right enforce how other perceive you.
Your personal pronouns, like everyone else, are I, me and my. I wish no ill on anyone, trans or not, but no one has the right to dictate how others perceive reality. Trans people need to get over themselves, grow up and move on. That is all.
we will make an added division for sports and call it the "coed" division. many sports have coed leagues for adults, where men and women play together. everyone can play, no one freaks out about boys and girls same field.
trans? gay? wheelchair/handicapped? special olympics? bored of being stuck on JV and just want something different? varsity says there's no room left? got a little rebel in you? go "coed."
it solves so many things and it'd probably be a joy to watch. we play 1 more soccer or whatever team game in addition to varsity and JV. we add a heat or so to events at track meets, when coed kids want to enter.
and if the bigots oppose it and start ranting again, their pure as driven snow 10th placing daughter is clearly safe in "girls," we have removed that excuse, and it's crystal clear they are just being bigots trying to make certain kids' life hell.
Dude the ONLY people who will be against this are the trans. So we will see who is still ranting
Who do you think will be for it? All-comers meets already exist.
How would you know? If someone looks like a women, sounds like a women, goes by a woman's name, and acts like a women, you would never have any idea they were a real, trans, women. I'd guess you have met with a trans women before and had no idea.
So you're viewing reality from a lens of "if no one can tell I'm really a man then I'm a woman". Makeup, costumery and other special effects are able to fool some people, but not all. You are a man playing dress up, just because you also suffer from myriad mental conditions doesn't give you the right enforce how other perceive you.
Your personal pronouns, like everyone else, are I, me and my. I wish no ill on anyone, trans or not, but no one has the right to dictate how others perceive reality. Trans people need to get over themselves, grow up and move on. That is all.
You dress according to your gender. This means you are dictating reality just as much as me. Everything anyone does dictates how other people view reality. And as mentioned, it has been proven time after time that trans people do not have a mental disability. And yes, I can fool all. Without medical testing, you would be unable to discern from a group of women if any of them are trans assuming any trans people in the group do everything I mentioned.
Am I doping? No. I am not on performance enhancing drugs. And unless you have tested my hormone levels, you can not even say I have any advantage over any cisgender female. Not all people with XY have the same hormone levels, and the same go for people with XX chromosomes. In fact, there are plenty of cisgender females who have higher testosterone levels than cisgender males, and vice versa with estrogen. You also do not know if I myself have been on HRT, in which case it is all the more likely that I have similar hormone levels than cisgender girls.
Please don't call people who don't claim to have trans or other special gender identities "cisgender." When you say the human population consists of "transgender" and "cisgender" people, it means you're asssuming the vast majority of human beings believe in the tenets of gender identity ideology and base their sense of self and social identity on the regressive, sexist and shallow sex stereotypes that constitute conventional notions of "femininity" and "masculinity."
I have no issue with you using the labels "transgender" and "cisgender" for those who are adherents of your belief system. But genderists labelling bulk of the population "cisgender" is akin to followers of certain religions calling everyone who doesn't adhere to their own faith "infidels," "heathens" and "heretics" and decreeing that we're all going to hell.
As for what you say about testosterone and estrogen levels in males and females, that's not true in our species across the life cycle.
There's a period of several years duing childhood after mini-puberty of infancy and prior to puberty of adolescence when the testosterone levels of girls and boys are either the same or for a brief moment girls' T levels might be a smidge higher than boys of the same age. And of course, once women are past menopause we naturally have lower estrogen levels than teenage boys and full-grown men.
Also, because human males naturally convert some of the testosterone their testes produce in massive amounts into estrogen via aromatization in some parts of their bodies, such as their reproductive tracts and brains, it could be that males sometimes, usually or always have higher levels of estrogen in specific cells and tissues than females do.
But when we look at the whole course of the human life span from prenatal development into old age, it turns out that overall males naturally have markedly higher levels of total testosteorne and free testosteron in their systems than females do; and during our "reproductive years" human females naturally have higher levels of estrogen than males do.
Mayo Clinic Labs’ Reference Ranges for Total Testosterone Levels Normally Found in Human Blood by Sex and Age in nanograms per deciliter (ng/dL)
Males 19 years and older: 240–950 Females 19 years and older 8–60
Mayo Clinic Labs’ Reference Range for Free aka “Bioavailable” Testosterone Normally Found in Human Blood by Sex and Age, in nanograms per deciliter (ng/dL)
As for this message, it proves my point. I never claimed that cis men and trans girls have consistently lower testosterone. I simply claimed that a) there are conditions that may make some have levels similar to cis women and b) that there are periods of time when some trans girls and cis men may have lower testosterone than women. And your words claim my second point to be true.
Please don't call people who don't claim to have trans or other special gender identities "cisgender." When you say the human population consists of "transgender" and "cisgender" people, it means you're asssuming the vast majority of human beings believe in the tenets of gender identity ideology and base their sense of self and social identity on the regressive, sexist and shallow sex stereotypes that constitute conventional notions of "femininity" and "masculinity."
I do not "identify as" unaffiliated or agnostic. That's how religious people classify myself. Do I believe in the supremacy of religious beliefs in human life? No. But I understand that other people believe in religion and that's an important part of their lives. I don't scream that "unaffiliated" is a slur just because I don't believe in religion and other people do. Just because I don't object to being called "unaffiliated" that does not mean I have accepted the supremacy of religion in human life including my own.
What about equality for actual women? Males should only compete against males.
what about equality for ALL PEOPLE? I agree that actual women deserve equality. And they have it. They are not forced to run in the boys divisions. They do not have their mere existence debated over the internet. Trans people do. And trans women are real women. If a person has a v****a, b**bs, higher levels of estrogen, normal amounts of muscle compared to cis-women, then who are you to say they are not an actual women. And I know you will probably bring up chromosomes, but you cant tell someones chromosomes just by looking at them.
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