Josh Kerr is the 2024 men’s middle distance runner of the year

Ruxton Towers XC wrote:

Rather than argue about this ad nauseam, we could just list our criteria (independent from "our favorite guy"). Then, it will either clear things up for us or allow us to understand why other people's thinking makes perfect sense to them.

Here is my logic:

There are really only two "big goals" each season: to be the Gold Medalist or break world records. To me, the minor medals don't matter too much; a lot of those guys are really only racing for gold. The secondary goal is to get world records.

And if records don't get broken, then "being the fastest of the year" is the next best thing.

Here are my criteria for "best" in any given event:

• Olympic Golds - Hocker & Wanyonyi
• Other Medals - Kerr, Nuguse, Arop, & Sedjati (or Hoppel if Sedjati gets popped)
• World Record - Jakob (OMG!) & Kerr (but indoors and slower than Jakob over the same distance)
• Fastest Times - Jakob (3:26.x) & Wanyonyi, Sedjati, Arop, Hoppel (1:41.x)
• Diamond League Champions - TBD

This is just my reasoning. You don't have to agree, but you can't claim I am "just picking a guy because I hate his rival."

Kerrnel of Truth wrote:

Wrong Again wrote:

That is fair.

How about Jakob's 3:26.73 and 7:17.55? Are these not more impressive performances? The 3k is rated as 1320 IAAF Points. Or his medal at the european champs? Or his 3:27 in Lausanne? Or win over Kerr in Zurich? He still has one more race where potentially he could go under 3:26. Would this change your mind if he were to break 3:26?

Jakob’s 3:26 and 7:17 were outstanding performances. There’s no question about that. But Kerr also broke a world record/“best” and ran a fast mile. Jakob has the fastest time this year in the 1500, but Kerr has the fastest time in the mile. That’s a tie.

The Euro 1500 doesn’t mean much when Kerr did the 800 and Americans were the best country in the 1500. Zurich gets cancelled out by Pre. Lausanne isn’t as good as Kerr breaking a 43-year course record at 5th Ave.

I don’t get into hypotheticals, but maybe we can revisit if Jakob runs 3:25 in Brussels. The problem is Jakob’s season was so short. To give someone middle distance runner of the YEAR based on only 3.5 months of activity is a tough sell. Would you give someone employee of the year if they only worked for your company for 3.5 months? Those 3.5 months would have to be perfect to overcome someone who has been magnificent since February. Do you know how difficult it is for a runner to be magnificent from February to September?

Jakob’s 3.5 months have been far from perfect. Three big losses, lost twice to Kerr, and no medal in the Olympic 1500. Kerr has two middle distance medals this year. Jakob has none. Kerr wins the award.

Wrong Again wrote:

Kerrnel of Truth wrote:

Jakob’s 3:26 and 7:17 were outstanding performances. There’s no question about that. But Kerr also broke a world record/“best” and ran a fast mile. Jakob has the fastest time this year in the 1500, but Kerr has the fastest time in the mile. That’s a tie.

The Euro 1500 doesn’t mean much when Kerr did the 800 and Americans were the best country in the 1500. Zurich gets cancelled out by Pre. Lausanne isn’t as good as Kerr breaking a 43-year course record at 5th Ave.

I don’t get into hypotheticals, but maybe we can revisit if Jakob runs 3:25 in Brussels. The problem is Jakob’s season was so short. To give someone middle distance runner of the YEAR based on only 3.5 months of activity is a tough sell. Would you give someone employee of the year if they only worked for your company for 3.5 months? Those 3.5 months would have to be perfect to overcome someone who has been magnificent since February. Do you know how difficult it is for a runner to be magnificent from February to September?

Jakob’s 3.5 months have been far from perfect. Three big losses, lost twice to Kerr, and no medal in the Olympic 1500. Kerr has two middle distance medals this year. Jakob has none. Kerr wins the award.

I appreciate that you can see the positives in both runners, however I think you are misjudging the times.

This season, Josh Kerr has run 3:27.79 3:28.64 (Converted from Bowerman Mile), 3:31.46, and a road mile that converts to around a 3:47 mile or basically another 3:31

Jakob for 1500m has run 3:26.73, 3:27.83, 3:28.24, 3:28.88 (Converted from Bowerman Mile), 3:29.52, 3:29.74, and 3:31.95. (has one more race, not sure how fast he will go)

So it is not really a tie when the converted 1500m times from the mile still show that Jakob has run the fastest over many races over 1500m. Just because someone is a world leader in an extremely similar event does not make it a tie.

If we even compare 2 mile/3k times, Josh Kerr has run 8:00.67 over 2 miles which converts to around 7:25 for 3000m.

Jakob has run 7:17 which is almost 8 seconds faster. So, in the department of PBs and fast times, Jakob is the fastest and most consistent runner over Kerr and it is not really that close.

I'm not sure why the Euro 1500m does not mean much? If we are comparing fields...the 5th avenue mile field was also watered down with only Hobbs Kessler and Neil Gourley as runners who were finalists from the Olympic 1500m final. The European 1500m final also had Olympic 1500m finalists in Neil Gourley and Pietro Arese as well as other Olympians as well, these two races are effectively the same and we can cancel them out. Kerr's 800m doesn't really add into the conversation since he only really ran 1:45.94. That is only half a second faster than Ingebrigtsens PB and almost 6 seconds slower than what any of the true 800m men have run as well. Distances from 1500m-2mile are more apt for comparison and a time in the 800m does not negative a European 1500m final.

I agree we can cancel out Pre and Zurich. Lausanne is absolutely not inferior to Kerr's road mile. Like I said above it was (1) A watered down field, and (2) in a time that is alright (3:30-3:31) but not comparable to 3:27.83. Just because the course record is extremely old does not make it this insane extraordinary performance. The only men of note to give Maree's record a shot were Peter Elliot, Steve Scott, John Walker, and Bernard Lagat. Imagine if El Guerrouj? Cram? Or Coe gave it a shot? Let's not forget that Lausanne is also an old meeting that was apart of the old five IAAF Super Grand Prix meetings. So, I would argue that it is more impressive that Ingebrigtsen was also able to break a meeting record in 3:27.83 despite being run in the past by all time greats.

I agree with you that only 3.5 months of racing is hard to sell to someone as Middle Distance athlete of the year but that is why I am here trying to convince you ;)

I will concede that Jakob has had three significant losses with one of those being the Olympic Final, Pre, and Zurich. He has won no medals from the WIC or Olympics in Middle Distance events.

If we look at Kerr, he lost very badly in Zurich and that loss was even worse than Jakob's since he placed 5th instead of 2nd and was almost 2 seconds behind (losing to Laros who is 19 years old). Kerr was also beat to the gold in Paris and only beat Ingebrigtsen by a half second, not very dominant and perfect from Kerr either.

To me, Jakob's fast times and consistency trump Kerr based on the analysis from above, feel free to disagree and I suspect you will. Good day!

justanothercuriousdude wrote:

Thank you for an entertaining post and the laugh you gave me!

You are of course trolling. -Meaning: You clearly don’t believe in your own words and reasoning. And you are of course here also to be condescending - very obvious through how you make a huge point out of Jakob’s short season, and how his results barely count because of that, in your belittling opinion and wording…

First of all: You claim that Jakob’s 3.26 and Josh’s 3.45 is a tie, because both is season best in the respective events..! Lol -I could stop my post right here, because in this you are making an inexcusable lie. -You know of course that this is no tie at all; the distances are very convertible, and Jakob’s time is almost 2 sec better than Josh’s…

And then we have 7.17 against 8.0 some -Josh himself compared his 2 mile time here against Jakob’s 7.54, and called the latter “a whole another ballpark”, which of course is totally correct. (Also because an indoor 2 mile is no disadvantage vs outdoors, and doesn’t need any conversion, IMO). And compared with the even better 7.17, and f.x adding a couple of seconds to Josh’s time since he had Fisher as a pacer almost the whole way -just for the fun of it, then we would have Josh at ten sec slower than Jakob, that isn’t only a whole another ball park, but a whole another ball park in a whole another universe..!

As you know Jakob was injured last winter with “almost no running for five months”. So yes, that makes a shorter season than he usually has (with full indoors). But since Jakob is so much better than Josh in 2 mile/3000m I suggest that we restrict to and define mid distance for those two as mile/1500m, also because they haven’t competed against each other in other events than that. And what have we then? Bingo -they started their season at the same time, and Jakob’s is longer (because of Brussels but also because of significantly more races), but I shall not be condescending and use it against Josh, or compare him with an employee…

Yes, Josh was better than Jakob in Paris. -Points to him! And yes, he did beat Jakob in the mile. And Jakob beat him with 2 sec in Zurich.

Road mile 3.44 -down hill and with a tailwind. -Sorry, not close to 3,27 high!
Conclusion: Josh seems to have been the best of the two in May and in Paris (despite Jakob showing a physiologically but not tactically potential there better than in May). Current best: Jakob; probably around 2 sec better than Josh, even drafting him….

Wrong Again wrote:

I appreciate that you can see the positives in both runners, however I think you are misjudging the times.

This season, Josh Kerr has run 3:27.79 3:28.64 (Converted from Bowerman Mile), 3:31.46, and a road mile that converts to around a 3:47 mile or basically another 3:31

Jakob for 1500m has run 3:26.73, 3:27.83, 3:28.24, 3:28.88 (Converted from Bowerman Mile), 3:29.52, 3:29.74, and 3:31.95. (has one more race, not sure how fast he will go)

So it is not really a tie when the converted 1500m times from the mile still show that Jakob has run the fastest over many races over 1500m. Just because someone is a world leader in an extremely similar event does not make it a tie.

If we even compare 2 mile/3k times, Josh Kerr has run 8:00.67 over 2 miles which converts to around 7:25 for 3000m.

Jakob has run 7:17 which is almost 8 seconds faster. So, in the department of PBs and fast times, Jakob is the fastest and most consistent runner over Kerr and it is not really that close.

I'm not sure why the Euro 1500m does not mean much? If we are comparing fields...the 5th avenue mile field was also watered down with only Hobbs Kessler and Neil Gourley as runners who were finalists from the Olympic 1500m final. The European 1500m final also had Olympic 1500m finalists in Neil Gourley and Pietro Arese as well as other Olympians as well, these two races are effectively the same and we can cancel them out. Kerr's 800m doesn't really add into the conversation since he only really ran 1:45.94. That is only half a second faster than Ingebrigtsens PB and almost 6 seconds slower than what any of the true 800m men have run as well. Distances from 1500m-2mile are more apt for comparison and a time in the 800m does not negative a European 1500m final.

I agree we can cancel out Pre and Zurich. Lausanne is absolutely not inferior to Kerr's road mile. Like I said above it was (1) A watered down field, and (2) in a time that is alright (3:30-3:31) but not comparable to 3:27.83. Just because the course record is extremely old does not make it this insane extraordinary performance. The only men of note to give Maree's record a shot were Peter Elliot, Steve Scott, John Walker, and Bernard Lagat. Imagine if El Guerrouj? Cram? Or Coe gave it a shot? Let's not forget that Lausanne is also an old meeting that was apart of the old five IAAF Super Grand Prix meetings. So, I would argue that it is more impressive that Ingebrigtsen was also able to break a meeting record in 3:27.83 despite being run in the past by all time greats.

I agree with you that only 3.5 months of racing is hard to sell to someone as Middle Distance athlete of the year but that is why I am here trying to convince you ;)

I will concede that Jakob has had three significant losses with one of those being the Olympic Final, Pre, and Zurich. He has won no medals from the WIC or Olympics in Middle Distance events.

If we look at Kerr, he lost very badly in Zurich and that loss was even worse than Jakob's since he placed 5th instead of 2nd and was almost 2 seconds behind (losing to Laros who is 19 years old). Kerr was also beat to the gold in Paris and only beat Ingebrigtsen by a half second, not very dominant and perfect from Kerr either.

To me, Jakob's fast times and consistency trump Kerr based on the analysis from above, feel free to disagree and I suspect you will. Good day!

Ruxton Towers XC wrote:

A Kerrnel of Truth wrote:

I appreciate your efforts but once again you make extremely faulty comparisons. What advantage has Jakob had this outdoor season, especially these last few weeks over everyone else who has been competing the whole year? He's been FRESH because he didn't start racing until late May while they have been running on FUMES because they've been racing longer.

You have to give more respect to someone like Kerr who has been racing since the winter like so many others when selecting the 2024 middle distance runner of the YEAR award. It's much more difficult to be magnificent for 7 months than for 3.5 months.

But Jakob was injured. So to say he had it "easier" because he didn't get to race indoors makes no sense. Jakob would have loved to not be injured! That would have been easier than grinding out P/T sessions all winter.

The pros who ran indoor had a huge boost running some great races, then got to refocus for the outdoor season. It isn't like they are in the NCAA and running two races a week from December to May and then doing the outdoor season. They are pros. They can handle running three indoor races.

Anyway, Jakob is MORE impressive since he came off an injury, opened his year with a 3:45 mile (same as Kerr) at Pre, and recovered well enough to run faster than Kerr's PR like five times after that!

If I run three races faster than your PR in one year, you can't tell me you had a better season than me unless you won Gold at the Olympics. Sorry.

And you act like Jakob should be so fresh while everyone else is tired yet Jakob has raced way more than anyone else this year. That is why some people think you are trolling. If Kerr does 4 races in 7 months and Jakob does 8 races in 4 months, I think the later is a lot harder!

But maybe that's just me. We can agree to disagree.