What's your explanation for Armstrong climbing slpe d'huez more than 3 minutes slower in 2003 than he did in 2001?
Do some critical thinking please.
Because WADA had been targetting Armstrong so he had to reduce his glow and coupled with him just getting older into his 30's and the juice didn't give him the same boost as before.
What's your explanation for Armstrong climbing slpe d'huez more than 3 minutes slower in 2003 than he did in 2001?
Do some critical thinking please.
Comparing two best ever performances seems like a decent comparison, vs two random times a rider rode a climb in different race circumstances.
I will accept the premise that Pog might be producing a little under the estimated W/kg due to his heavier weight.
Compared to Pantani? Yes. But how would Pogacar compare to Pantani in times in similar conditions?
Bear in mind that Pantani had to shake off hus rivals early in the climbs and ride solo for longer.
There is a reason why Alpe d'huez is not used recently. It's probably because the old times of the EPO era would be comparable to today.
I learned about EPO in 1991 and, since I had a good grasp of how the human body works I knew that the drug worship cult mentality didn't have this understanding. If people did a bit of critical thinking, they would understand it too. But people get so wrapped up in misinformation that they can't think logically.
Allow me to jump in here and explain the differences in Power to weight ratio for different size riders.
A big rider has an advantage against the wind because of the surface area to mass ratio being an advantage for them aerodynamically, if we assume they optimise their position with wind tunnel testing.
And a smaller rider has a power to weight advantage on steep climbs. So you see higher watts per kilo numbers for them on the climbs.
I'm an average runner graduated from college who runs 50-60mi per week still (16:02 5k, 9:05 3k). My average power on most runs is around 210-240W and I weight 56.6kg which is 125lbs and I'm 5'6". This nets out to 3.7-4.2W/kg. I looked at some professional athletes' average power on runs from strava as a sample (although you can only take so much info from there).
Case 1 Drew Hunter: He averages roughly 260-300W per run. I assume hes roughly 145lbs which is 65.7kg. This nets out to 3.96-4.6W/kg.
Case 2: Clayton Young: He average roughly 250-300W per run as well. Assuming he is 135lbs, that is 61.1kg which nets out to 4.1-4.9W/kg.
Case 3: Neilson Powless: His average power on a hilly bike route is roughly 250W. He weights around 130lbs which is 58.8kg. This nets out to 4.25W/kg which is on par with elite runners.
Case 4: Graham Blanks: His average power on most runs is 380W. This is very high and likely due to watch difference. His runs do show he pretty much never has an easy day like you see Mantz or Hunter or Young have. I put his weight at around 140lbs which is 63.4kg. This outputs a whopping 6W/kg which is sustainable for some distances but leads to injury as its quite equivalent to going hard daily with limited recovery.
Woman were difficult to find on strava for good reason so not much data there. I saw emma bates on there and her data more or less correlates with my average as shes roughly 120lbs and her average power on strava was 180-200W. For the sake of calcs this nets out to 3.3-3.7W/kg. Although I'm fairly certain she would kick my butt in any of the aforementioned distances.
Anyways if you want to do your own calcs if you got a watch that does power.
Weight (lbs) / 2.208 which converts to Kg. Then average power (W) /weight (kg). Would be interesting to see what others get.
I forgot to mention these calculations aren't based on a workout effort as those will likely produce a lot more power. They are based on your everyday runs at normal effort pace in Z2-Z3 runs
I forgot to mention these calculations aren't based on a workout effort as those will likely produce a lot more power. They are based on your everyday runs at normal effort pace in Z2-Z3 runs
“Power” for running is an estimate. They calculate a number based on educated guesses of various factors.
Power in cycling is an actual measurement of force being applied from the body to the bike (pedals or cranks.)
The two cannot be compared.
“Running power” is yet another BS metric to get people to pay for more BS products they don’t need.
I dont disagree with you at all on this. Just wanted to put some numbers out there although again those numbers make Graham Blanks look superhuman compared to a top US marathoner in Clayton Young lol...Agree way too many factors in running but always neat to look at
I'm an average runner graduated from college who runs 50-60mi per week still (16:02 5k, 9:05 3k). My average power on most runs is around 210-240W and I weight 56.6kg which is 125lbs and I'm 5'6". This nets out to 3.7-4.2W/kg. I looked at some professional athletes' average power on runs from strava as a sample (although you can only take so much info from there).
Case 1 Drew Hunter: He averages roughly 260-300W per run. I assume hes roughly 145lbs which is 65.7kg. This nets out to 3.96-4.6W/kg.
Case 2: Clayton Young: He average roughly 250-300W per run as well. Assuming he is 135lbs, that is 61.1kg which nets out to 4.1-4.9W/kg.
Case 3: Neilson Powless: His average power on a hilly bike route is roughly 250W. He weights around 130lbs which is 58.8kg. This nets out to 4.25W/kg which is on par with elite runners.
Case 4: Graham Blanks: His average power on most runs is 380W. This is very high and likely due to watch difference. His runs do show he pretty much never has an easy day like you see Mantz or Hunter or Young have. I put his weight at around 140lbs which is 63.4kg. This outputs a whopping 6W/kg which is sustainable for some distances but leads to injury as its quite equivalent to going hard daily with limited recovery.
Woman were difficult to find on strava for good reason so not much data there. I saw emma bates on there and her data more or less correlates with my average as shes roughly 120lbs and her average power on strava was 180-200W. For the sake of calcs this nets out to 3.3-3.7W/kg. Although I'm fairly certain she would kick my butt in any of the aforementioned distances.
Anyways if you want to do your own calcs if you got a watch that does power.
Weight (lbs) / 2.208 which converts to Kg. Then average power (W) /weight (kg). Would be interesting to see what others get.
All of your statements may be true, some more than others. Cables have been hidden for a long time. The problem with saying Pog did the PdBeille just because of these advantages is that everyone and every team has exactly the same advantages—same aero, same tires, same nutrition, same skin suits. None of this is proprietary or unique. Yet he arrived at the finish line not even breathing hard. Everyone else was gassed.
At least Lance had the good grace to be exhausted when he won a hard stage after 60 hours of racing.
Most of the riders don’t make their power public on Strava. A strong tailwind is a massive advantage over a doped up rider with minimal wind, especially a headwind. Super light weight aero wheels, even their skinsuits make a difference. He also had massive pulling from Matteo and then Jonas before he went solo for the remainder. All in all, that 7 watts/kg is an estimation. I’ve personally had Strava estimate my power on some KOM’s I went all out in and before I had a power meter it estimated it well above 7 watts/kg - but Strava didn’t have the 15 mph tailwind I had in its algorithm.
The watts is dead on. It's not an estimation. They're using either cranks or pedals that measure their watts.
So 7 watts/kg is the real deal. It's a mind blowing number.
They know their power, but it's not public.
The calculation is *almost* simple to estimate climbing power. Starting fact: Pogacar did 1875 VAM for the 39.5 minutes.
Energetic requirements:
1) Gravity 2) Rolling Resistance 3) Aero Drag 4) Drivetrain Loss
1) At 66kg and with a 6.8kg bike, and 1kg other mass (shoes/helmet/clothes), one needs 5.71 W/kg to overcome gravity. 2) Tire resistances are well established. At a minimum, it's 11W total. At a maximum, it'll be about 18W. This brings us to 5.9 - 6.0 W/kg. 3) Aero drag is the big question. What is the wind direction? How much assist is he getting from being lead up most of the climb? How good is his aero position and drag coefficient? That said, I ran a calculation using the gribble calculator for a 7.5min effort of mine from last week, and it was different by 1 Watt vs my power meter. At 25km/hr, 30-60W of aero drag might be reasonable, though I don't really know. 30W brings the total to 6.40 W/kg. 60W brings the total to 6.85 W/kg.
4) Drivetrain loss is very small. Maybe 0.05 W/kg. This gives us a range of 6.45 - 6.9 W/kg.
Really hard to convert. I'd have to push 465w to go 7.0 w/kg. I'll do 30s reps at that pace. Idk how long I could hold that for maybe up to 5min. But obviously Tadej is going to have a much higher FTP than I do. Magnus Ditlev (triathlete) is rumored to have done an FTP test @ 503 watts. So .95 (multiply to get FTP/1hr pace) of that = ~478 watts for 1hr. I feel like Tadej is probably riding somewhere close to his FTP @ 7 w/kg. So 40min @ the end of a stage race is crazy but he's also a crazy fit athlete to begin with. I've done longer efforts where averaging something close to FTP for a decent chunk of time at the end is definitely possible. 2 days ago was also a stage with a rest day the next day + sprint stage today after the rest day where he can chill. He knew he could empty the tank.
I think Tadej is most similar to whatever marathoner is able to negative split to a sub-2:02. He's able to turn it on, after putting in an effort already close to his red line.
Also idk where someone is getting Powless riding @ 250w for hilly stages. His Strava with power #'s is public if we're to take them as accurate. It really depends on how much work he's doing. He's not a GC rider so he's not trying to go with those late race surges. He might push 200-250w on a sprint stage in the peloton but he's averaging 300w for 4-5 hours on the harder stages (last 3 stages- 288/300/311 weighted per his Strava).
This post was edited 11 minutes after it was posted.
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