What is the threshold that separates a "hobbyjogger" from a "sub-elite" runner?

Everyone keeps regurgitating this but it's mostly just to sound pretentious and edgy. You haven't really added anything meaningful to the discussion.

"Sub elite" as a term means someone who is fringe national class, aka an athlete who is 1 breakout race from hitting an OTQ (2:20 marathon)

Anyone who's slower than me is a hobby-jogger, and anyone who is faster than me is elite. It's me, I am sub-elite.

Really, they’re saying this in order to sound pretentious? That’s odd.

I think the “hobby jogger” distinction is having more of an impact on their answer than the “sub-elite” side. Anyone who pursues running as a personal interest without meaningful financial compensation is a “hobbyist,” so in that sense there are professionals and “hobby-joggers” and nothing in between. Funny enough, the one-sentence example Google provides for the word “continuum” is “at the fast end of the fast-slow continuum.” Sub-elites, I suppose, are at the fast end of the fast-slow continuum of hobby-joggers.

if you are receiving a paycheck from you're shoe or apparel sponsor. you are a professional athlete. everyone else is a hobby jogger or sub elite. call it what you want. your jusy slitting hairs amoung the pack filler.

There definitely is a real designation called "sub-elite".

It gets you priority starts at most road races. Not to mention access to drinks, sometimes separate toilets, a warm-up area, and even free entry. You might even snag some prize money on the right day.

Also, the prefix "sub" is used in the same way that it's frequently used in running, that is to mean; just below.

As in, "I'm doing a set of sub-threshold intervals." This doesn't mean I'm jogging way, way slower than threshold; it means, I'm running slightly below my threshold.

Also, when someone says they're aiming to run sub-30 in the 10k, they aren't going to set off at 26 minute pace. They will set off at a pace that will allow them to run just slightly below 30 minutes.

Therefore, there is a bottom end to the term "sub-elite", just as there's a bottom end in the examples given above. Perhaps it isn't clearly defined, but if you're a long way off elite then you're probably not sub-elite.

Basically American elite runners then.

Love that you think anyone is this country could afford rent and the price of running shoes working 20 hours a week. Grumpy old man, saying grumpy old man things.

My PRs are the standard for sub-elite

400m:51

800m: 1:55

1500m: 4:02

Mile: 4:25

5k: 16:12

Marathon: 2:52

Benchpress for reps: 275lbs x3

To make the "elite field" of a pretty big US Marathon often there is a strict time standard of something like sub 2:20 or sub 2:18 (for Men).

Of course if it's London or Berlin maybe you don't make the "elite field" with that time because it might be more like a sub 2:08 nowadays.

But the term "elite" is generally relative to a very specific time.

"Sponsored Pro" however does not always apply to "elite" and for someone just making the US Marathon Trials maybe you call yourself just "National Class." I'm not sure if that is considered "Sub-Elite" or not?

For "hobby jogger" it's not so much about making money or not (there are many "hobby joggers that might run in the 2:40s, but they aren't making money like some "Influencer" who runs 3:05)....but rather the "seriousness of their training" and the time and money commitment.

If this was a Tracksmith ad though....well, we're all amateurs!

Basically according to your definition if you finish an half marathon in 2 hours you are elite, since for 95% of the people it is a crazy fast time.

Look at all the slow as f__k 2:25 marathoners that cry because somebody calls them with their proper name (which is hobbyjoggers), because they are entitled morons that think to be better than other slower hobbyjoggers when in reality elite women would kick their ass in any race...

Anyone not making the Olympic Trials is a hobby-jogger.

In my opinion, the designation is variable not by the individual but by the event you are at.

Grandma's marathon, for instance, considers sub 2:23 elite and sub 2:30 'semi' elite. Source:

grandmasmarathon.com

Elite Athletes - Grandma's Marathon

For many years now, elite athletes train for and participate in Grandma’s Marathon as the level of competition improves every year.

Open link

Other marathons have different standards, I'm sure.

Other races have different standards. It's a moving target because fields change.

Most of us are likely 'elite' at our local 5k.

Most of us are 'hobby joggers' when considering Olympic fields.

Timeless wisdom. It’s always wherever you are. Exactly 1 minute slower is a jogger.

Jogger and sub elite IMO have minutes of time between them in the mile. So there is no threshold. There is too much real estate between the two. Jogger has connotations of someone who doesn't race and runs 10min/miles?

I'd somewhat agree.

If you make the difference whether money is earned, you'd call everyone through to the late 70s a hobbyjogger since their was an amateur standard in place (albeit one that was often breached). For many, many years virtually all US elites were collegiates who retired to make a living when college was complete.

I would say it's more a question of approach and attitude. A competitive athlete trains systematically with the aim of improving and reaching performance goals. What I'd define as a hobbyjogger is someone who goes running to stay fit and if they do run races does the for social reasons or pure fun rather than trying to achieve place or time targets.

The times for these groups can overlap. For example, a 70-year-old who is age group world-ranked for 5k can't fairly be described as a hobbyjogger, but could find themselves running close to the same sort of time as an athletic 22-year-old who has what we defined as a hobbyjogger approach.

So, I would say a sub-elite is someone who is very high on the "competitive runner" spectrum with out quite being international class, where a "hobbyjogger" is a completely different group.

I think the trap to avoid is to not compare everything to Kipchoge/winning times @ majors. 2:10 is elite. An OTQ is elite. You're getting dusted at the bigger races but let's be serious you're still incredibly fast, might be able to get some help from sponsors, and you'll get your entry comped at most races/get in the elite field/have a dedicated warm up area/etc.

I would go sub-2:22/2:45 elite & then there's everyone else. I tend to think genetics play a pretty big role once you go sub-2:45/sub-3 & how close you can get to elite times. Most 2:30-2:45/2:45-3hr marathoners are doing similar training. Some people go a little faster. Maybe they're the sub elites. I'm never gonna knock someone for running 2:39 on 100mpw. That's what it takes for some people & if you find enjoyment from that who cares what anybody else thinks. It's not as good as the 2:25 but at the end of the day neither runner is cutting a check from the sport.

Good post sage. There is a poster on here, beersandmiles, who is a 14:37/1:07/2:19 guy...he's borderline elite. I haven't seen him in some time tho. I think he posts about all the cool beers he's tried--he has good genes for running and appreciating beer :)

Thanks for being a sensible person by providing a comprehensive answer, it's refreshing to see. Too many people here think they're being witty with their one liners and it comes across as needlessly juvenile instead.