Jeff Nelson: How good was he?

interestingly, binns progressed all the way to a lifetime best of 13:23.

This from the July '79 T&F News:

"Nelson stayed near the back of the field through a 4:17.5 mile (62.9, 64.6, 64.1, 65.9) before his pace slowed to a 66.2 and 67.0.

But with a half-mile to go, he picked the tempo back up to 64.2 and was 6th at the bell. A 61.4 final go-round gave him 3rd place and the record."

Also:

"More prep results from this meet were reported in last month's open division news story. Prevoiously unreported marks include a 1:51.6 for David Mack (9th), a nation leading mile of 4:46.4 for Linda Goen (6th) and efforts of 4:50.1 for Michelle Bush (8th) and 4:50.2 for Darlene Beckford (9th)."

Those are some impressive prep marks. Remember that Michael Carter was heaving the shot 77-0 (12lb) and 66-4 (16lb) as well.

Who said nothing good came out of the 70s?

change of subject...what about rich kimball?

check out the 1974 california state meet results: monster double!!

Some major future studs in this race: e.g. look at #13...among others.

1 Rich Kimball De La Salle NC # 8:46.5 2Mile 1974 3rd US All-Time

2 Eric Hulst Laguna Beach S 8:50.5 2Mile 1974 Nat'l & State Soph class record - #7 US All-Time

3 Jim Schankel Lompoc S 8:56.9 2Mile 1974

4 Benton Hart Modesto SJ 8:57.8 2Mile 1974

5 Kirk Pfeffer Crawford SD 8:59.5 2Mile 1974

6 Steve Mowry Madison SD 9:03.1 2Mile 1974

7 Juan Garcia Redwood C 9:04.3 2Mile 1974

8 Mitch Kingery San Carlos CC 9:05.0 2Mile 1974

9 Roy Kissin San Ramon NC 9:08.0 2Mile 1974

10 John Avila Avene C 9:08.1 2Mile 1974

11 Guy Arbogast Crespi S 9:14.6 2Mile 1974

12 John Sisler Petaluma NC 9:14.8 2Mile 1974

13 Doug Padilla Marina NC 9:15.4 2Mile 1974 AR's in 3000, indoor 2 mile & 5000

14 Stacy Geiken Cubberley CC 9:15.6 2Mile 1974

15 Vicken Simonian Hollywood LA 9:16.5 2Mile 1974

16 David Villarreal Carson LA 9:18.8 2Mile 1974

17 Gerrdo Canchola Van Nuys LA 9:19.6 2Mile 1974

1 Rich Kimball De La Salle NC 4:06.6 Mile 1974

2 Andy Clifford Sunny Hills S 4:06.7 Mile 1974

3 Ray Wickwell West Covina S 4:08.2 Mile 1974

4 Ralph Serna Loara S 4:09.2 Mile 1974

5 Tom Colley San Gorgonio S 4:09.5 Mile 1974

6 Rusty Nahirney Washington NC 4:09.6 Mile 1974

7 Tom Smith Granite Hills SD 4:10.6 Mile 1974

8 Jay Woods Vista SD 4:11.0 Mile 1974

9 Conrad Shur Leigh CC 4:11.4 Mile 1974

Mile 1974

Lap Times: Woods 61.6, Woods 2:05.9, Kimball 3:09.8 (56.8) Mile 1974

Kimball's 1/2 mile double is the fastest ever and came within :70 Mile 1974

Craig Virgin ('73 T&F News AOY) tried the 1&2 with 8:42.6 & 4:12.2 Mile 1974

Fastest mile field in HS competition ever. Mile 1974

okay...time for my a.m. run!

70\\\\\\\\\ wrote:

Could you explain this to me, then, cause I don't think its worth that at all. Definately not!...ah never mind as usual its like arguing with people from another planet.

I'm sorry, but I'm fairly certain that's the way that many of us feel about you!

As "hold the phone" already mentioned, you need to let go of this obsession you have with referencing Rupp's 8:03 3,000m. That's a different race, and it doesn't factor into the equation.

If you want to break this down into even simpler terms, a 13:37.91 5,000m effort translates into 4:23-pace-per-mile. Obviously, Nelson's 8:36.3 2-mile effort is 4:18-pace. On that basis alone, do you honestly still feel that Rupp's performance is inferior to Nelson's, considering the fact that he ran over one mile further during his race?

Ok, I'm trying to concentrate! :) Lets see your times are huge...so you must be great College age runner? 3:43 so what was your 3000 at same period or your 5000? Tell me your name and I'll research it for you! :) Maybe around 8:00 for the 3000? You tell me! Cause I'm looking at a few college guys few years back, and I got a list down to the floor, who were stronger and more mature than Rupp at the time, Riley 13:42 8:06.45/ Career best Luchini 13:31 7:56.70 (almost exactly comparable to Rupps 13:37 and 8:03) / Solin 13:37 8:04.70 + 13:42 8:06.51. I tryed to go back when these guys were closer to Rupps age.

And find times they ran close together.

Oh, Sorry I mentioned Rupps 8:03 again :( I just am saying during Rupp's peak there when he was running those times, and if he lined up to run and break Nelson's 8:36...I would have bet against YOU, he would not have hit it. Its my opinion you would have been putting money in my hands. My opinion tough guy! :)

okay, i'm gonna try one more time to end this squabble since my attempt to change the subject did absolutely nothing. :)

well, first off, i think "both" of you (70\...and tyrone, et al) have valid points though somewhat cheapened through all the nastiness that's being thrown around. personally, i think nelson's and rupp's times are quite equal but i might be somewhat biased as i have personal bests of 8:37 indoors and 13:57 outdoors...i only wish i had run as fast as rupp. someone earlier mentioned that an 8:36 is equal to a 13:58 according to some conversion calculator...could be. but i'm hoping my two-mile time is superior to my 5k (of course, for more selfish reasons). besides, i'm a friend of nelson's. see, i told you i was biased. ;)

What if we take a look at this year's indoor collegiate results? In the 3k we have 16 guys running under 7:57, which is roughly equivalent to an 8:36. See list below....

1 Richard Kiplagat SR Iona 7:49.98 02-24

2 Robert Cheseret SR Arizona 7:50.40 01-28

3 Michael Woods SO Michigan 7:52.27 02-04

4 Kurt Benninger JR Notre Dame 7:52.28 02-04

5 Josh McDougal FR Liberty 7:53.16 03-04

6 Chris Solinsky JR Wisconsin * 7:53.43 02-25

7 Peter Kosgei SR Arkansas 7:53.48 02-11

8 Josphat Boit SR Arkansas 7:53.84 02-11

9 Marc Rodrigues SR Arkansas 7:54.78 02-11

10 Galen Rupp FR Oregon 7:54.90 03-04

11 Kevin Chelimo JR Texas Tech 7:54.92 02-11

12 Jacob Gomez SO Stanford 7:55.26 02-25

13 Nef Araia JR Stanford 7:56.11 02-25

14 Matt Debole SO Georgetown 7:56.45 01-27

15 Max Smith SO Providence 7:56.52 02-25

16 Scott Overall FR Butler 7:56.58 02-04

In the 5k we have ZERO people who have run 13:37 or faster. One may argue that it's indoors so athletes train through and don't run as many 5ks, that the turns make a bigger differenece in the 5 than the 3, etc. So we'll use last year's outdoor list. Five people ran under 13:37...

1 Ian Dobson SR Stanford 13:27.45 W 04-15

2 Ryan Hall JR Stanford 13:31.58 W 04-15

3 Robert Cheseret JR Arizona 13:31.62 W 04-08

4 Matt Tegenkamp SR Wisconsin 13:31.98 ME 05-01

5 Kurt Benninger SO Notre Dame 13:33.05

That doesn't necessarily mean that Rupp could have definitely run 8:36, but it does fairly convincingly show that 13:37 is more difficult to do than 8:36. I still think Nelson was a better runner than Rupp.

I'd like someone to name 5 S.CA HS DR runners that actually achieved something in D1 and/or post college running, 1500 or above. I'll admit the HS times down their have been amazing...but, hey, it's high school.

A_Goofy_Runner wrote:

In the 5k we have ZERO people who have run 13:37 or faster. One may argue that it's indoors so athletes train through and don't run as many 5ks, that the turns make a bigger differenece in the 5 than the 3, etc. So we'll use last year's outdoor list. Five people ran under 13:37...

1 Ian Dobson SR Stanford 13:27.45 W 04-15

2 Ryan Hall JR Stanford 13:31.58 W 04-15

3 Robert Cheseret JR Arizona 13:31.62 W 04-08

4 Matt Tegenkamp SR Wisconsin 13:31.98 ME 05-01

5 Kurt Benninger SO Notre Dame 13:33.05

That doesn't necessarily mean that Rupp could have definitely run 8:36, but it does fairly convincingly show that 13:37 is more difficult to do than 8:36. I still think Nelson was a better runner than Rupp.

What are you talking about? Last year, Broe and Webb went @ 13:11, Goucher went 13:10, Ritz went 13:22, Hall went 13:15, and Dobson went 13:16... And I'm sure there were many others under 13:37 outdoors...

Okay, I promise I will clam up no matter what anyone says to me. :( It will be difficult cause I really like Nelson. I swear he said 4:12 that first mile...maybe he said WE hit the first mile at 4:12..("and it was my fastest 1 mile time ever"). I do think your 2 is the better time, by far. I ran also, very heavy, but believe as I coach, youth, that the highschool boys just have a different whacky strength than college guys. Its strange. I'm working with two boys now, sophs. in highschool. Both are 6'1" and around 158 lbs. These two both ran 4:05 and 4:08 1500s in 9th grade. They like the mile as it is big again. What a challenge with these guys. Jeff mentioned he was coaching some USATF. Was wondering how he was doing, and of course my guys think he is a GOD. Would love to talk to him again on a few worries I have with these two guys. You try to protect them, but bring them along, parents complain he is not running enough! Its tough. The team I have would die to meet Jeff. I got Lindgren in to meet them, but Jeff was with his family. Do you have contact with him?

Burbank: Mark Covert

As Mark would want precision - he was running right at mid teens for much of his frosh an soph yr (college) and then some 20 mpd scattered throughout a year. Straining at nats perhaps but still the numbers don't mispeak. Highest year = 17 per day. The brutality was in the quality of the miles rather than quantity - although that speaks volumes in itself. His mileage is down some these days.

The motivation for the next Burbank generations is not questions.

change of subject...what about rich kimball?

check out the 1974 california state meet results: monster double!!

Some major future studs in this race: e.g. look at #13...among others.

1 Rich Kimball De La Salle NC # 8:46.5 2Mile 1974 3rd US All-Time

2 Eric Hulst Laguna Beach S 8:50.5 2Mile 1974 Nat'l & State Soph class record - #7 US All-Time

3 Jim Schankel Lompoc S 8:56.9 2Mile 1974

4 Benton Hart Modesto SJ 8:57.8 2Mile 1974

5 Kirk Pfeffer Crawford SD 8:59.5 2Mile 1974

6 Steve Mowry Madison SD 9:03.1 2Mile 1974

7 Juan Garcia Redwood C 9:04.3 2Mile 1974

8 Mitch Kingery San Carlos CC 9:05.0 2Mile 1974

9 Roy Kissin San Ramon NC 9:08.0 2Mile 1974

10 John Avila Avene C 9:08.1 2Mile 1974

11 Guy Arbogast Crespi S 9:14.6 2Mile 1974

12 John Sisler Petaluma NC 9:14.8 2Mile 1974

13 Doug Padilla Marina NC 9:15.4 2Mile 1974 AR's in 3000, indoor 2 mile & 5000

14 Stacy Geiken Cubberley CC 9:15.6 2Mile 1974

15 Vicken Simonian Hollywood LA 9:16.5 2Mile 1974

16 David Villarreal Carson LA 9:18.8 2Mile 1974

17 Gerrdo Canchola Van Nuys LA 9:19.6 2Mile 1974

1 Rich Kimball De La Salle NC 4:06.6 Mile 1974

2 Andy Clifford Sunny Hills S 4:06.7 Mile 1974

3 Ray Wickwell West Covina S 4:08.2 Mile 1974

4 Ralph Serna Loara S 4:09.2 Mile 1974

5 Tom Colley San Gorgonio S 4:09.5 Mile 1974

6 Rusty Nahirney Washington NC 4:09.6 Mile 1974

7 Tom Smith Granite Hills SD 4:10.6 Mile 1974

8 Jay Woods Vista SD 4:11.0 Mile 1974

9 Conrad Shur Leigh CC 4:11.4 Mile 1974

Mile 1974

Lap Times: Woods 61.6, Woods 2:05.9, Kimball 3:09.8 (56.8) Mile 1974

Kimball's 1/2 mile double is the fastest ever and came within :70 Mile 1974

Craig Virgin ('73 T&F News AOY) tried the 1&2 with 8:42.6 & 4:12.2 Mile 1974

Fastest mile field in HS competition ever. Mile 1974

okay...time for my a.m. run!

Good talent in the 800 that year also. John Musich of Burbank won in 1:51.1 out kicking Steve Scott. John also ran 4:08 for a mile that year and 9:10 as a junior for 2 mile (he never ran the 2 as a senior)

better question wrote:

I'd like someone to name 5 S.CA HS DR runners that actually achieved something in D1 and/or post college running, 1500 or above. I'll admit the HS times down their have been amazing...but, hey, it's high school.

R. Hall, Tim Nelson, Bill Nelson, J. Spiker, & Mark Matusak.

Jeff Atkinson of Mira Costa HS Manhattan Beach

I would say "achieved something" at Stanford and then post collegiately. check 1988 Olympic 1500 FINAL

Let's go: 1) Scott, 2)Hall, 3)Atkinson, 4)Gray, 5)Keflezghi, 6) Hunt

Some of the guys mentioned above were Nor.Cal runners.

not a better question at all...pick a year, any year and i'll give you a history lesson. but to help you, we'll start with the 1974 list i gave earlier.

2 Eric Hulst

3 Jim Schankel Lompoc S 8:56.9 2Mile 1974 multi-all-america at cal poly...

13 Doug Padilla Marina NC 9:15.4 2Mile 1974 AR's in 3000, indoor 2 mile & 5000

2 Andy Clifford Sunny Hills S 4:06.7 Mile 1974 2nd in NCAA mile

3 Ray Wickwell West Covina S 4:08.2 Mile 1974 3:56 miler

4 Ralph Serna Loara S 4:09.2 Mile 1974 (2nd in new york marathon...fastest ever with a mokawk at 2:12??)

8 Jay Woods Vista SD 4:11.0 Mile 1974 3:54 miler indoors

i'm sure there are others on this thread who could add from the '74 state list...i know roy kissin ran fast post high school...low 28 minutes for 10k.

steve scott...oh wait, he wasn't very good. hmm, i'll have to check on that guy. he sounds familiar.

i could go on and on, but don't have enough time...i'll check back later for a rebuttal or hopefully, a confirmation.

better question wrote:

I'd like someone to name 5 S.CA HS DR runners that actually achieved something in D1 and/or post college running, 1500 or above. I'll admit the HS times down their have been amazing...but, hey, it's high school.

Sure, without putting any thought into it

Steve Scott

Thom Hunt

Terry Cotton

Doug Padilla

Meb

Sorry about the addition of Gray; I didn't read your quesiton (1500m and above) closely enough.

Wow. Some post. Can I just point out that college 3000 times are weak relative to 5000 times because COLLEGIANS RARELY RUN THE 3000 OUTDOORS AND NOBODY POINTS TOWARDS A FAST 3K. The bottom line is nobody who has ever run 13:37 would say it is an equivalent performance to 8:03. Nobody.