Ethan Hermann is robbed of an OTQ - Merber reports

This is pretty embarrassing and you should quit coaching. I’m a middle aged woman who hasn’t even BQed yet and will never come close to an OTQ, but even **I** know the rules.

How stupid are you? Why are you even on the course? It is literally your JOB to know the rules.

Coaches shouldn’t be allowed anywhere except the finish line if they’re going to do this.

Happens all the time? I've followed this sport seriously since 1967 and this is the first instance of this happening I can recall hearing about. What examples can you give of someone being DQed in a marathon because they were give a drink by a spectator?

I'm impressed that a middle aged woman who hasn't even BQed yet pays so much attention to USATF rules. But if you know so much about the phucking rules why aren't you commenting on that part that says the athlete is to be given a a warning for the first offense and not DQed unless there's a second offense?

I'm wondering if she also checks to make sure each person she grabs a water/Gatorade cup from is an 'authorized person'. If she grabs any refreshment from someone at an aid station who isn't officially designated as an authorized person, then according to the rules, she is liable for disqualification. Of course, I'm sure she knows that though.

*liable to disqualification after she is warned of course.

As a rule follower myself, I make sure to get a list of every single authorized person at the event. At the water stops, I then ask the 16-year old volunteers for their names to make sure they are in fact on the list of authorized persons so I know I can take a water cup from them. Some may say, "well if they are wearing the volunteer shirt, that counts". But how do I know that isn't just some kid who decided last minute he wanted to help out and didn't check-in first with the race organizer? You can never be too careful and I don't want my potential BQ time to be invalidated due to disqualification.

Others will say "A coach giving a bottle inside the aid station is different than a random volunteer giving water that may or may not be officially authorized".

But the USATF rules don't make a distinguishment. Your feelings about what is 'fair' or 'common sense' are irrelevant. The rules are the rules. You should know the rules and have to follow them.

https://www.nola.com/sports/louisiana-marathon-s-first-female-finisher-mandy-west-disqualified-after-receiving-assistance-marathon-official-says/article_78716d9c-7bd5-5190-8639-33663e892fde.html

Bourgeois said West was warned by a marshal “at least once that we don’t allow that.”

I'm not going to have a back and forth with someone that is anonymous. I'm a registered user and I'm sure its not hard to find my contact information. I'll have a back and forth with you personally if you want, but I'm not going to do it here. And to the answer as "how stupid am I?" when you contact me personally we can have that debate.

So is it too late to appeal?

Plenty of us here are reasonable and see this DQ as targeted and/or ridiculous, so perhaps someone on the appeals review board is a thoughtful and reasonable person as well.

The "rules are rules as written" people don't seem to possess common sense or independent thought as to what actually happened here. Taking a bottle from someone at a water station 22 miles into a marathon?

And agreed on the McDirty consensus. Too coincidental and his post was like laughing in your face about it.

don’t waste your energy on trolls. that poster is much more likely to be a high school boy than a middle aged woman and I doubt they’ve ever run a marathon. I’m surprised people took the bait.

also, please appeal.
also also, McKirdy is not your friend.

That bottle should be pluralized?

I'm not a rules official but I'll give you a hint and ask you a question:

1) The hint: the rule being quoted, and on which the DQ was apparently based, comes from "USATF Competition Rules"

2) The question that is a prelude to your question: do the USATF Competition Rules govern what happens at the Olympics, Berlin, and any other non-USATF race you're bringing up?

some things just not adding up here.

1) I’ve seen a lot of “I didn’t know the rule” tossed around. Philly puts on a phenomenal elite program. There’s no way this rule wasn’t covered in emails AND at the technical meeting.

2) I’ve seen this was claimed as one rogue moment when the coach let his emotions get the better of him, but he was biking around on the race morning to all the water stops? I don’t think it’s a crazy stretch to say this was coordinated.

Having said that, I don’t think Ethan should be DQ’d. I just think it’s clear that two of the major pillars of what both the athlete and coach are using as a defense here are clearly not true. It’s a dumb rule, but they knowingly broke it. Both can be true and it feels pretty obvious that is the case.

Okay, so another person who doesn’t know the rules.

None of what you said even matters. The USATF rules say a warning is to be issued before a DQ. So either argue that a warning was in fact issued, and they committed the infraction again after the warning OR find some rules I’m unaware of that supersedes (and contradicts) the rules quoted above in this thread.

Everyone else is arguing about things that don’t matter. It doesn’t matter if it’s fair. It doesn’t matter what Rupp did in the Olympics. It doesn’t matter what shoes he was wearing or if there was a technical meeting that specifically discussed this. It doesn’t even matter if the coach and athlete knew the rules or not. What does matter is the rules. The rules say a warning comes before a DQ. As of now, there is no indication a warning was given and thus the DQ was wrong. That’s it. Can we just argue this (if anyone has anything that contradicts my assertion) instead of rambling on about irrelevant details?

Philly does put on a good race but it was not discussed in the technical meeting.

It went straight to a DQ. His coach was not at all the aid stations

I did not say I biked to every water stop. I said I biked all over the course. The route is uploaded to my Strava. I was at stop 1 because it’s right near mile 3 and I wanted to get a running watch on the race since I wasn’t going to the start. I was at the 2nd stop because it’s easy to get to. I did not touch a bottle at either spot. My next spot was mile 7 (not a water spot). I missed Ethan there, but I waited for another person I helped. I have a video of it if you want I then rode to mile 14’ish and 25k (same spot). This is also not a water stop but I was there with my triathlon coach. I actually missed Ethan coming towards 25k because my back was to him because my other guy was coming down the other side of the road. I then waited for the 2nd guy to come to 25k and by that time Ethan was well on his way to Manayunk by then. I rode up to mile 22 where a friend who would bring me items I ordered from the running store she worked at was manning the elite aide station. I didn’t realize it was Ethan’s group and that’s when I went absent minded. I then sprinted on my bike to mile 23 (stopped and yelled), mile 24 (stopped and yelled) and then mile 25.5 which is at the bottom of the hill. I stopped at each clock because I was trying to see how much time he had in the bank and to see if he was maintaining, speeding up or slowing down. After he passed me at 25.5, I waited for my next guy (PS: 230 lbs guy who ran 2:38) and then went to the Bishop’s Collar where I stayed until about 2:30pm.

Again, I’m not sure why your biking route matters or how many water stops you were at.

All that matters is:

Ethan was DQ’d for receiving a water bottle from an unauthorized person.

USATF rules say he should’ve received a warning before a DQ.

The DQ seems to contradict USATF rules and no one (to my knowledge) has explained why the meet referee did not abide by USATF rules and why Ethan was DQ’d without a warning.

All other talk is detracting from the fact the referee (or whoever issued the DQ) likely messed up. (I say likely because maybe a warning was actually issued or maybe I’m somehow misinterpreting the rules or missed something).

I just don’t understand why almost no one is discussing the most important factor. He was wrongly DQ’D ACCORDING TO USATF RULES. Why does no one care about that?

No holes here.